Citadels in 6.4??

[Tate]

Ok this is ridiculous. This is my first play-thru using 6.4 and I love it, except for this one annoying thing. How can you get a freaking citadel? It is year 1429 on turn 210 and I have none. I scoured the map using toggle_fow and there is ONE citadel in the entire map - Burgos owned by Castile.

I tried putting a high chivalry general (8 of 10 chiv) in my biggest fortress and that still wasn't enough to put the population over the top. I'm not a modder but is there an easy fix for this? It's getting really annoying. I'm playing as the TO and the Fatamid's Tabardarrya are eating most of my soldiers alive. I could really use those dismounted Ritterbruders by now.

[Oberbefehlshaber]

Yeah, 6.4 is supposed to be like this. If I were you I would just use the add population code, (add_population "city name" "amount of population to increase")

[Dark Lord's Heir]

Its an unfortunate feature they added so that ppl wouldn't be spamming citadels all across their campaign. If you want to do it without cheats then all I can think of is a FB or G that has full chivalry and has traits that aid in population health or lowering squalor. Or if you want you can just make your own building that has an effect that lower squalor considerably b/c squalor is what keeps the population from growing.

[Tate]

Its an unfortunate feature they added so that ppl wouldn't be spamming citadels all across their campaign. If you want to do it without cheats then all I can think of is a FB or G that has full chivalry and has traits that aid in population health or lowering squalor. Or if you want you can just make your own building that has an effect that lower squalor considerably b/c squalor is what keeps the population from growing.

That's why I started this thread. I have fortresses with every possible building in them plus a high-chiv governor and it still won't be enough to get it up to the population limit. I agree that spamming citadels across the campaign shouldn't be done, but to have practically zero of them the world over this late in the game is just silly.

[ziserman]

Go to the medieval 2 folder, then mods, then SS 6.3, then data. In there find a file called "descr_settlement_mechanics" and open it with notepad.
Now scroll down as far as it goes. You see this:

<population_levels>
<!-- city -->
<level name="village" base="500" upgrade="1000" min="500" max="1500"/>
<level name="town" base="1000" upgrade="3500" min="500" max="5000"/>
<level name="large_town" base="3500" upgrade="9500" min="500" max="12000"/>
<level name="city" base="9500" upgrade="19500" min="500" max="25000"/>
<level name="large_city" base="19500" upgrade="30500" min="500" max="60000"/>
<level name="huge_city" base="30500" min="500" max="500000"/>
<!-- castle -->
<level name="moot_and_bailey" base="1000" upgrade="2000" min="500" max="1500"/>
<level name="wooden_castle" base="2000" upgrade="4000" min="500" max="5000"/>
<level name="castle" base="4000" upgrade="9500" min="500" max="10000"/>
<level name="fortress" base="9500" upgrade="22500" min="500" max="21000"/>
<level name="citadel" base="22500" min="500" max="30000"/>
</population_levels>
</root>

Now play with the "fortress" line. Either change the "max" to like 23000 so it's easier for the population to grow (I think you reduce squalor this way)
*or*, what I have done, change the "upgrade" to a lesser number, such as 22000.

That's the short version. If you're interested in more tweaks, I have found this to be very informative
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=253598

Hope it helps

[Dark Lord's Heir]

That's why I started this thread. I have fortresses with every possible building in them plus a high-chiv governor and it still won't be enough to get it up to the population limit. I agree that spamming citadels across the campaign shouldn't be done, but to have practically zero of them the world over this late in the game is just silly.

No, the ''making a building'' part referred to you making your own custom building in the text files of the game and making that building have a squalor lowering effect.

[Epic28]

I can also agree that its unfortunate citadels are so rare. Especially for the actually player himself, since the only citadels i've ever controlled have been those which were sieged from the AI and their growth bonuses. Lately I've just tried to completely build every fortress structure then use the add population cheat.

[DrakeEB]

Just give your high chivalry generals the good builder trait, architect ancillary, or the kind ruler trait, Expensive Tastes trait also will lower squalor but reduce other stuff. Yeah, it's kind of cheating but it's an option.

[SoulBlade]

No, the ''making a building'' part referred to you making your own custom building in the text files of the game and making that building have a squalor lowering effect.

I don't think it's possible to add a -squalor effect to a building. Just give the mason's or the other building health_bonus bonus 2 or 1.

[recentiy03]

It seems significantly easier for the AI to get citadels, so make sure you send in a spy before you capture a city...if it means waiting a turn or five to let the AI grow the population for you then you should probably wait before attacking. I have at least 5 citadels in my current campaign and I didn't grow the populations for any of them.

[Beregond]

I kinda agree it's a pointless (and much irritating) change, so myself just use add_population

[muller227]

The only way I have been able to get Good Builder, was through the recruitment of Generals at the Fortresses. I have managed one Citadel at Adana, it was through a 10+ chivalry General with architect. The main thing seems to be the Base ag level in the Settlement Details for Adana which is 2.5 all the others are 1.5 or 2, I am seeing if I can manage at Nicosia now with a lesser general because it also has a 2.5. The 1.5's seem utterly hopeless the 2's really can tease with a High Chivalry general Corinth bottomed out at 21,900 or so.

[PorknBeans]

So virtually the only way to obtain a citadel is by cheating? I dont understand why they included the near impossible population count conversion to begin with..

[Ichon]

What do you mean "virtually" ? There are a number of ways to get it in the game but you have to get the perfect general + ancillaries to do it yourself or wait for AI to do it. I like the new system although if it stays that Citadels are quite hard to get shifting some of the roster in EDU might make sense.

[Dahoota]

Call me weird but I really like how difficult it is to get Huge Cities and Citadels in 6.4. It increases their value on the map.

I hate it in the later stages of any TW game when EVERY city on the map is a huge city (like you used to see in RTW). It makes it kind of bland.

[Rupsie]

Why not change the population required to a manageable level. But also have a requirement (aka hidden resource) to make a citadel (like huge city's use to have). This way there is a max number of citadels but everyone can get one (without the tendious work to get the right traits/no bad traits).

[bɑne]

You can always just wait for the AI and take it from them.

[Mojo582]

I agree with a few above in that the campain map shouldnt be covered entirely with huge cities and citadels ect but tate dose have a point in that even with good govenors the system is quite restrictive and one shouldnt have to rely on the Ai too build your citadels for you (i remod my game btw and take away the Ai excecess cash) i would suggest giving farms an increase in growth bonuses? or any other buildings you see fit as they are simple too modify too your own tastes (perhaps a late model building)

[Larsel]

I had full chivalry general sit in a fortress (Palermo to be exact) with artist and architect retinues which combined reduces squalor by 3. Still this wasn't enough and the population stopped at 2422 which is just 78 less for the citadel upgrade. I had a bunch of huge cities, like 5 or 6, but i just couldn't get a citadel. So i changed the desc files so that it was a bit easier to get a citadel, because i found it stupid that with almost everything done to make a super governor the citadel stage was still unattainable

[ziserman]

I also believe it is ridiculously hard to make citadels. I actually haven't be able to make a citadel without changing the desc files.
I'm very happy with cities though. Very nice balance.