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Thread: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

  1. #141

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    @Craig/CA: now we're given a hand, could I please ask for the whole arm and ask you to post some similar documentation on the M2TW file formats such as the dot world files, and the (header of) dot cuf files?

    If you could do us that massive favour I'm sure you'll see that repaid in some knock-your-socks-off modding by the people who currently forge ahead in modifying the M2TW battlefields, and fonts respectively!

    @People who think these are somehow tools: nothing of the sort. By themselves these files will not allow you to do anything meaningful but stare at how much there can be edited.

    What these files are useful for is people who are currently actively working on tools to edit NTW/ETW because the XSD files state “rules” which “valid” entries must conform to, and the XML data provides examples of valid data. Thus one can now write conformance test suites for the data based on the actual rules (XSD) rather than having to reverse them, and such validators are very much necessary to check modded XML files for errors. Additionally, XSD files might shed light on currently obscure corners of the ETW/NTW engine.

    Essentially what is posted is a “grammar” or “spec” if you will for source file formats.

    So right now you still must wait for the people who may pick this up and write tools based off this information, or update currently existing tools to fix their bugs accordingly.

    You're a bit behind the game there mate
    The tools already exist, we're currently putting this info to use updating column headers that were previously marked as "unknown"
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  2. #142

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Not at all what i was hoping for

    But still I JUST JIZZED RIGHT IN MY PANTS! WWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  3. #143
    Inevitability won
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    Haha, thanks... I think.

    I can't take all of the credit though - a number of people behind the scenes have been pushing very hard alongside to get this data out there. You should also worship those faceless, heroic few. You might know a name or two
    Was it Kieren B. I bet it was Kieren. He wasn't moving to SEGA afterall, he was pushing for modding assistance and had in the end to fall on his sword in return.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    The ESF stuff is pretty complex. If I get anything on that I'll let you know.
    Appreciate it.

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  5. #145
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    You know what I'd love? A patch for M2TW... 64bit and multi-core support. that'd be awesome. Screw Empire support - you won't mod it as much as you guys did with M2 and Rome, probably.


    Also, open source M2TW *ziame drools*

  6. #146
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Hello Craig,

    I saw in NTW that with a unit with a drummer and flutist can play 6 different tunes from units with only drummers or buglers. However, only one unit per army can play the tunes at a time and only one tune per faction plays. Is there a way to make all units with flutists in them to play the flutist tunes at the same time and have them play all tunes? Or is this not your thing?

    Anybody know if there's a way to get past this with the new infomration we have?

  7. #147

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by T.C. View Post
    You're a bit behind the game there mate
    The tools already exist, we're currently putting this info to use updating column headers that were previously marked as "unknown"
    That's the bit about bugs. You can use the XSD's to check if your tools are doing the right thing, and also -of course- to get a quick validator for free assuming you do XML round trips in the tool (any good heavy duty XML library will allow you to validate XML against XSD).

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    That's the bit about bugs. You can use the XSD's to check if your tools are doing the right thing, and also -of course- to get a quick validator for free assuming you do XML round trips in the tool (any good heavy duty XML library will allow you to validate XML against XSD).
    My db schema autodetector already validates our db schema for errors against real database. Just sayin'.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    The ESF stuff is pretty complex. If I get anything on that I'll let you know.
    Any information regarding the pathfinding.esf would be appreciated. Especially anything relating to the grid data part.
    Last edited by uanime5; June 30, 2011 at 05:13 PM.
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  10. #150
    Lord Dakier's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    And so when everyone was getting bored of their last 3 releases and the views in Shogun, NTW and ETW was barely reaching 150 in total they have released details to us. Let's watch as the pondering masses gather to give thank. The only true people who deserve rep are those such as Darth, the Great War team and the Zulu team. The people who managed to revolutionise NTW and ETW with the little knowledge known.

    I am pleased to see we've been given this but the large mass of the community has already moved away from NTW and ETW, but it will be interesting to see how the forum reacts to those two games.
    We Came, We Saw, We Ran Away!

  11. #151

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    ^ A Shogun 2 bone should really be thrown this way Lord Dakier, I agree.

  12. #152
    ToonTotalWar's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    So after reading the comments of taw and T.C., we basically have a load of xml files which will gain us more types of religions for in game and we can also now identify some further "Unknown" columns in the db files?? and thats it? so we are all wetting ourselves over a bunch of files that really is not going to make that much difference to the ETW & NTW games? please tell me that I am wrong!!

    I really do hope that the pfm and esf mod creators will clear up what we are actually gaining here with these files as trying to read them in xml editor is a nightmare!!
    Last edited by ToonTotalWar; June 30, 2011 at 05:08 PM.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    Our map creation process involves multiple internal and 3rd party apps, it's not simple.

    But is it not possible to compile those into one editor???
    Total War is the only massive war game that has yet to be Surpassed keep up the good work CA don't let us down!!!!

  14. #154
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Before everyone wets themselves for Craig\CA, I have one question...


    What does this do in REAL TERMS for modders and the games? Will we get the types of improvements (and especially fixes) that CA failed to deliver?

    Have they given you guys enough to work with for this?

    Ok, that`s three questions.
    Last edited by Humble Warrior; June 30, 2011 at 05:22 PM.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by ToonTotalWar View Post
    So after reading the comments of taw and T.C., we basically have a load of xml files which will gain us more types of religions for in game and we can also now identify some further "Unknown" columns in the db files?? and thats it? so we are all wetting ourselves over a bunch of files that really is not going to make that much difference to the ETW & NTW games? please tell me that I am wrong!!

    I gathered pretty much the same thing, people are apperantly singing from the roof tops because they got something, even though they don't know what it is, and it won't end up changing much.
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  16. #156
    Elmar's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    I too would hope that the CA team would keep a sharper eye out for modding in future engines.
    Even more so because I do not see the benefits of the ETW map over the RTW map as clearly as Craig does. The new map format gives us better path-finding and AI? Uh, if you say so. Not exactly overwhelmed myself. Non-tile based map movements? And how many beers does that buy me in the pub? Tiles would be fine for me. I don't care. Oh hell, I'm one of those Luddites that wishes serious consideration be given to going back to the province based movement.

    But the chief question that forms in my admittedly curmudgeonly brain is the following:
    What took you guys so long?
    More then two years is long enough to get some really snazzy mod tools out to us. But you take great pains to tell us you ain't doing that, and aren't going to. We get DB files instead. I'll let someone else comment on how much can be done with those files. I couldn't even begin to form an opinion worth reading.
    What preys on my mind is: why were these were not given earlier?
    It boggles the minds that after all this time this is what CA comes up with. I am less bothered that this was the best you guys could do, but pretty annoyed that it took you this bloody long to do it.
    Last edited by Elmar; June 30, 2011 at 05:28 PM.
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  17. #157

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    Before everyone wets themselves for Craig\CA, I have one question...


    What does this do in REAL TERMS for modders and the games? Will we get the types of improvements (and especially fixes) that CA failed to deliver?

    Have they given you guys enough to work with for this?

    Ok, that`s three questions.
    What did CA fail to fix / deliver; other than a game that was as easy to mod as M2TW? If we don't know this then it's impossible to tell if this information will resolve these issues.

    Regarding this information it basically tells modders what all the columns in the DB tables are for. This information will help modders make changes to the campaign and battles in ETW and NTW. Though it won't make new units or maps.
    Morning Sun (adds Korea and China to the Shogun 2 map)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...28-Morning-Sun

    Expanded Japan mod (97 new regions and 101 new factions)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ew-factions%29

    How to split a region in TWS2
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...split-a-region

    Eras Total Conquest 2.3 (12 campaigns from 970-1547)

  18. #158
    DukeCanada's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Thanks CA!
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  19. #159
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Maybe people could be a little less ungrateful.

    Okay maybe this isn't akin to the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' but it is another step in the right direction, at the very least CA have shown willing to release files. Not long ago this kind of liaising was unheard of. Hopefully things can move forward, even if only one step at a time.

    Now, how about allowing us to reverse engineer BI/Alex..

  20. #160

    Default Re: Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

    Quote Originally Posted by ToonTotalWar View Post
    So after reading the comments of taw and T.C., we basically have a load of xml files which will gain us more types of religions for in game and we can also now identify some further "Unknown" columns in the db files?? and thats it? so we are all wetting ourselves over a bunch of files that really is not going to make that much difference to the ETW & NTW games? please tell me that I am wrong!!

    I really do hope that the pfm and esf mod creators will clear up what we are actually gaining here with these files as trying to read them in xml editor is a nightmare!!

    Either Erasmus or I will have the files released for PFM within the next 36 hours. When that happens, open up the packs yourself, take a poke around and form an opinion. Until then, stop looking on the worst side of everything

    P.S. Get something like notepad ++, it makes xml much easier to read
    My Tools, Tutorials and Resources

    Was running out of space, so see the full list here!

    Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell

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