Official CA comment - Total War: The modding situation

[Von_Clausewitz]

The argument that they won't because of laziness holds no water. They've already mentioned certain things can't be release due to third party software useage which they can't release publicly due to how they've licensed it.

That is BS TC, you should know very well that an editor can be made from scratch in no time by an experienced GUI programer, especially one that worked on the software.
You mean to tell me Lord Desaix can make one but they cannot because of licensure, bla bla bla...
All that is just lame excuses.
I had been in contact with you before and told you I was learning python. Using the free GUI library of wxpython now I can make a unit editor. Will I make one? Probably not, I have big projects at work that are due in November to prepare for, NTW3 is almost done from that standpoint, I do not make a living from this stuff, and It will likely take too mush time since I am an amateur at that.
But please those excuses provided are an insult to our intelligence...

Fixed that for you. There's others out there who'll use them, don't speak for everyone just cause you think you already know how to do everything.

Apologies if I'm being blunt.

I do not think I know everything, some people might get some use of these files, maybe we will too, but is that going to allow major changes or ge the bases for new mods to emerge like they are saying? NO. And you know that.
It is one sprinkle of salt that might make a small difference in taste but not the culinary miracle we were promised.

Lord VC

[ronchas]

You mean to tell me Lord Desaix can make one but they cannot because of licensure, bla bla bla...

Lord VC

probably

[♔hammeredalways♔]

again Lordz you miss the point, we all know the history bleating and bleating will not change it.

you guys like many of us have made do, or made your own tools, when we wanted somethings we are unable to do we have also spoken to 3rd party developers to assist, and TC has pushed this area in both ETW and NTW, whether this is right or wrong quite frankly I don't care, it is what it is.

Now the guys from CA have put out an olive branch lets not snap it off, lets be constructive, if you wish to , , make another thread and do it in there it.

We all want different things from CA and as TC and others rightly say the info., will have a use for each of us, that use may be limited to some or may actually assist is some breakthroughs as yet unknown - but the objective should be to work with the CA team to try and gain additional answers and support, not sniping over the past.

[T.C.]

You mean to tell me Lord Desaix can make one but they cannot because of licensure, bla bla bla...

Yes, because he isn't bound by licensing. The fact is CA were going to release their in-house tools to us. They hit a licensing wall. It wasn't part of their business plan to take time away from game development to make and release modding tools, it was part of their plan to release their own development tools. This failed due to licensing/whatever and the business plan moved on. Never in their past have they made modding-specific tools, and they weren't going to start now that they couldn't release their own tools.

I don't know why you're so concerned over the unit editor anyway, it wouldn't have allowed us to do anything we already couldn't. This raw data does.

is that going to allow major changes or ge the bases for new mods to emerge like they are saying? NO. And you know that.

And was a unit editor?

[[N]Fullin]

why are we arguing among ourselves about the importance of these files and the reason why we dont have tools?

Makes no difference.

Some think these files are great news after 24 month. Some of us think is too little too late.
So?
Lets live with that and move on.

Please let us complain as we will let you praise.
Thats a community.

TC , I hope you can achieve great things with these files so we can all benefit from it.

We will keep on banging the square drum, if you allow us, and please dont ground us like little boys for that.

Lets mod and play.
and hope for better news in the future from CA.

thou i doubt it (:[ sad lol)
but please prove us wrong.

[craziii]

he wants developer tools.

you might as well tell them to close up shop and give paradox all their business.

in all my gaming years, the only companies to release tools of the kind are ones closing their doors. and that is almost always years and years after the release date. you would have better luck trying to license the engine and tools from ca.

@legio I would ignore you jab at my modlessness :P let me ask you something very simple. how would you feel when a person speaks to you in a negative, sarcastic tone? how would you react? your answer should help you understand why I think your only hope is to ask nicely. this is especially true when you have zero leverage to speak of. try to keep the good will alive.

you don't know how hard those patches will be, I certainly don't know, assumption is worthless when you are trying to convince anyone. I doubt they will work with the modders to that degree unless they mean to hire you eventually like luster. I do hope your dream to come true though, I love the mods for tw games.

regarding ca policy: wasn't this explained by craig? this entire point was explained in the first post of this thread :() if you chose not to take notice, there is really no point in continuing this.

ps: please don't be snobbish, it is really stupid. you reminded me about some jackass in real life telling me I know nothing about football(soccer) since I am just a huge fan, who watch every single game I have time for, but I don't play football at all. I am sure you can make a point without resorting to something like that right?

[ottomanfan]

why are we arguing among ourselves about the importance of these files and the reason why we dont have tools?

Makes no difference.

Some think these files are great news after 24 month. Some of us think is too little too late.
So?
Lets live with that and move on.

Please let us complain as we will let you praise.
Thats a community.

TC , I hope you can achieve great things with these files so we can all benefit from it.

We will keep on banging the square drum, if you allow us, and please dont ground us like little boys for that.

Lets mod and play.
and hope for better news in the future from CA.

thou i doubt it (:[ sad lol)
but please prove us wrong.

Well said!!

I am shocked at the amount of fanboys wetting themselves over the release of these files when its quite clear they have no idea what they are or how useful (or useless might be more appropriate) they are. There are a lot of people very disappointed at STILL not being able to mod the most important things such as the square, column, shambolic reinforcement system or most important of all the campaign map!! So, yes it's a step forward but still a very poor show from CA.

[LEGIO_Desaix]

Sorry Fullin, perhaps you miss Craig post on DB topic. No more patch for square or column. They prolly doesn't even know anymore who programmed NTW ....just kidding, let us have some joke since we'll never get a decent square.
They even refused our 10.000 € collect..., no way to break the iron surface where their modder heart should beat...

To be honest I realized the impossibility to mod Empire/NTW to a MED extent since the very beginning, this is why I focused on historical battles and historical maps. I heve never asked for tools (so craziii you're on the wrong path), I knew we had to cope with this engine hoping that CA would listen to our requests. So I've never annoyed with topic about modding tools, about unit editor because I simply know how impossible is to release such tools for public usage. You almost must spend the same amount of time writing tutorials for other people. As Lordz we have only requests minor improvements to the engine to increase realism on the tactical battlefield, and everybody would agree that column and square are the most faulty, or missing, aspect in this game tactically speaking.

As I've always said the fact that CA announced a square revision from Empire and the intoduction of a column formation says enough to those who think they make game and simulation. The border between the two is quite narrow when talking about TW series. With a good modding you can turn a game into a simulation pleasing all those (maybe for their age) love to stick with a title and don't try lots of new titles every month. I reckon this is not a good commercial base, but nonetheless can generate good revenues broadening the target of potential customers.

We probably missed the right time to get some improvements when patch 3 has been released, but at that time we thought some shortcut could be found while decrypting the DB tables. IT would have been easy at that time, now I understand it's impossible because it means to deal with Steam, to forward a patch to download...all in all red tape stuff that makes little money in exchange.

[Humble Warrior]

he wants developer tools.

you might as well tell them to close up shop and give paradox all their business.

in all my gaming years, the only companies to release tools of the kind are ones closing their doors. and that is almost always years and years after the release date. you would have better luck trying to license the engine and tools from ca.

Guess you haven`t played games like Morrowind, Oblivion, FallOut 3 etc, all of which released modding ability help for them on release or soon after. They`re still going stronger than ever.

Also, those games that did release mod info late often worked very well to start with and usually just enhanced the games which Mods should do, not fix. With CA we have to beg for mod tools to fix things more than just enhance.

[T.C.]

With CA we have to beg for mod tools to fix things more than just enhance.

Such as?

[Graphic]

Such as?

You just asked Humble what he thinks is wrong with Total War games.

Put on a hard hat and some ear plugs.

[craziii]

Guess you haven`t played games like Morrowind, Oblivion, FallOut 3 etc, all of which released modding ability help for them on release or soon after. They`re still going stronger than ever.

Also, those games that did release mod info late often worked very well to start with and usually just enhanced the games which Mods should do, not fix. With CA we have to beg for mod tools to fix things more than just enhance.

list some mods for those games that totally changed it? I am talking about total conversion mods like the tw mods. did they ever release the tools they use to make the game? a big fat NO. how do you know they are still going stronger than ever? you got some secret sales figure from bethedsa it self? even IF it is true, that is a big if, how do you know it is the mods that is helping the sales?
@legio, those sentences weren't directed at you. thought the @ legio clearly separated my post.

[d0nutz]

list some mods for those games that totally changed it? I am talking about total conversion mods like the tw mods. did they ever release the tools they use to make the game? a big fat NO. how do you know they are still going stronger than ever? you got some secret sales figure from bethedsa it self? even IF it is true, that is a big if, how do you know it is the mods that is helping the sales? don't talk out of your ass, especially not with me.

@legio, those sentences weren't directed at you. thought the @ legio clearly separated my post.

Not sure about the sales figures, but mods for Oblivion and Morrowind? You are joking right? Or you have never actually got into these games like you are into Total War series, which is perfectly fine. There are absolutely tons of small mods like in TW and some absolutely huge ones which redesign the whole game. Google will confirm that for you in a blink of an eye, and I mean absolutely huge mods. All made with the included toolkits. But we digress imo, TW series and Bethesda titles are different really, tho there is no better example of a FULLY mod supported games like those ones,the best example of what modders here wished for TW.
I continue to think and agree with some people here that modding is purely not a priority, and who could argue with the fact that instead of supporting mods (like I also liked them too) they spent their resources making more games and selling to continue business? Its perfectly valid.
On the other hand promising stuff like modding tools (which some people say they did) without delivering... that imo is the wrong thing.
Its true that without the tools, the achievements here are far greater btw. I am usually quite amazed with them, especially now that I managed to get hold of NTW and ETW. There is no doubt about that.

[Dago Red]

Impressive and respectable response from CA!


And I'm happy to say, I will now buy Shogun II, though I had sworn to everyone I know that I would not! I may even purchase Napoleon.

[craziii]

Not sure about the sales figures, but mods for Oblivion and Morrowind? You are joking right? Or you have never actually got into these games like you are into Total War series, which is perfectly fine. There are absolutely tons of small mods like in TW and some absolutely huge ones which redesign the whole game. Google will confirm that for you in a blink of an eye, and I mean absolutely huge mods. All made with the included toolkits. But we digress imo, TW series and Bethesda titles are different really, tho there is no better example of a FULLY mod supported games like those ones,the best example of what modders here wished for TW.
I continue to think and agree with some people here that modding is purely not a priority, and who could argue with the fact that instead of supporting mods (like I also liked them too) they spent their resources making more games and selling to continue business? Its perfectly valid.
On the other hand promising stuff like modding tools (which some people say they did) without delivering... that imo is the wrong thing.
Its true that without the tools, the achievements here are far greater btw. I am usually quite amazed with them, especially now that I managed to get hold of NTW and ETW. There is no doubt about that.

I played them you know, also played with loads of mods. I honestly haven't come across a full conversion mod. give me a list. proof me wrong. proof it.

an example of full conversion mod. the third age mod for m2tw, everything got changed, it is like a new game. same with broken crescent.

your turn.

[d0nutz]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/nehrim-at-fates-edge
http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/

Thats the one I played, at the time still no english translation, I am sure there are more tho. As I said, they had the tools tho, which is comparably easier than TW will ever be to mod.
We are just showing that some companies can do it and have done it? Thats really what its all about.

[Lethe]

Guess you haven`t played games like Morrowind, Oblivion, FallOut 3 etc, all of which released modding ability help for them on release or soon after. They`re still going stronger than ever.

Also, those games that did release mod info late often worked very well to start with and usually just enhanced the games which Mods should do, not fix. With CA we have to beg for mod tools to fix things more than just enhance.

I'm fairly certain that Tale Worlds also released modding ability from the start for Mount and Blade. Tale Worlds even has forums on how how to mod, and has sub forums for the mods themselves, on the company's own site.

[B-DizL]

I have a question for the Lordz, if you guys figured this all out a long time ago and none of this new information will help you then why didnt you release the info you found months ago?

Why do you now come here and complain when you guys never bothered to give any of the rest of the modding community this info?

[craziii]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/nehrim-at-fates-edge
http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/

Thats the one I played, at the time still no english translation, I am sure there are more tho. As I said, they had the tools tho, which is comparably easier than TW will ever be to mod.
We are just showing that some companies can do it and have done it? Thats really what its all about.

the first one is great. is it fully translated yet? it seems to have german voice but english subs. but the most important thing, you found one! even if it is a german one! thanks for the link.

tr looks like would take at least few more years ) the oblivion game is already obsolete now, few more years, it would be forgotten by the time it finishes.

back to the point, did bethesda ever release developer tools? that is what I meant by asking too much from ca. people are asking them to release tools they use to create the game so they don't have to create modding tools. the game in a genre of it's own. I mean come on. you must understand why they can't release something like that right? I love mods as much as any gamer, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. this is as grand as a pipe dream gets.

judging from the full conversion mods for oblivion, we know how much thankless work and time is require to fully convert a modern game. etw and ntw is even newer. I know I sound super ungrateful by saying this, but if a modder find the modding to be unenjoyable or don't want to put in the time. you should just forget it. why do something like that?

I wonder what the percentage of the tw players who play with mods is. would be interesting to know the impact of mods.

[Von_Clausewitz]

I think most people here misunderstood the point of my post.

I could not care less about modding tools, we have our own. I was just pointing out CA's blatant lies to the modding community by promising modding tools they did not deliver and then insulting our intelligence (or at least the intelligence of some of us) by giving us BS excuses.
Licensure issues, lol, what is an editor but a GUI software that would generate some tables/data for the soft to use.yoy mean to say they had a 3rd party make them an editor for their game/data? That sounds ludicrous.
Histwar was made by one man and shipped with a map and units editors.

All I cared about was a fix for the instant square. And as a novice programer I know for a fact that it would take less than 10 lines of code to add a counter to where there is a delay between pressing a button and its resulting action.

But yes, I agree with TC, the business plan is not there, the business plan is to produce the next lemon. They are clever people, they know that no matter how soure that lemon is there are plenty of people drinking the lemonade.

Lord VC