The 'Enlightenment' of the 'West'

[bigfootedfred]

What is it?

Nothing.
We so called 'enlightened' simpletons, stroll the planet, obsessed by our own stupid little lives.
Millions every day sit in front of the Favored brainwash machine, to find out what dress such a such a 'celebrity' wore to such and such an event.
Dazzled by 'our' own 'technological marvels' a great many of us having no idea how such things operate or function.
Having long ago lost the need or even the desire to question why, simply that they do is enough.
Millions of humans, simply passing time as the clock ticks by till their death,
Having no effect on the world, humanity or anything of importance.
Accumulating wealth so it can be spent on 'luxuries' that make the time pass a little bit easier.
Millions hooked up to system that takes them at childhood, and spits them out at old age.
Having gained nothing from it. But perhaps a passing on of genetic material, delivering yet another slave to system.
Scurrying about like ants with no purpose or need to exist beyond that they do.
millions in 'jobs' that merely serve the luxury of another.
Use of the Brain not required or needed for most, best left to others, while they scurry around.
Not needed to know or care, as the fantasy life is better than the reality.

That is our society.
What right do we have to call ourselves 'enlightened', when a great portion of society is based around a system that requires no thought on independent level, and requires nothing more than drone bee like activity.

What right do we have to look on others, any other human culture or group,
As 'less enlightened', or less in any way, than our own?
We're all human, and every individual human can succumb, to everything that every other individual human can.

Some of the truest words ever spoken, in my honest humble opinion are these.

"the wise man is the man who admits he knows nothing"
-Socrates.

[Perikles]

What a 'happy' post!
I believe life is here to be lived and I always try to do something with my time that will be beneficial to me or others.
I agree totally that we are too dependant on 'stupid' celebrities on the TV, people need to get a life and go see the world around them.
"The wise man is the man who admits he knows nothing" perfectly fits in to today's society in my opinion, we know nothing of the world, but seem to think we are everything.

[Denny Crane!]

I was going to write a topic similar to this. On radio two a goegrapher did a special report on the kingdom of bhutan, where they are trying to measure GDH (gross domestic happiness) instead of GDP. Their consensus is that happiness is a far better way of measuring progress than growth. They educate differently and have different goals without sacrificing things like modern medecine though they have only recently got TV it is supposed to be the happiest place on earth despite a troubled past.

We are so decadent in western society, sex sells everything. Money is the driving force behind every factor of our lives and government, our arts are slowly being corrupted by product placement and advertising.

However on topic:

Having long ago lost the need or even the desire to question why""

When did we find it? Is the author of these words suffering from the rose tinted glasses syndrome of thinking there was some golden age in the past. Things are bad now they were bad then.

What right do we have to call ourselves 'enlightened', when a great portion of society is based around a system that requires no thought on independent level

Suffering from thoughts of egaliterianism. Everyone is not equal, a lot of people are born with no more capability than this.

Although I do not believe we can call ourselves a true and just society when money and the love of corrupts every part of our social structure.

Peter

[bigfootedfred]

I was going to write a topic similar to this. On radio two a goegrapher did a special report on the kingdom of bhutan, where they are trying to measure GDH (gross domestic happiness) instead of GDP. Their consensus is that happiness is a far better way of measuring progress than growth. They educate differently and have different goals without sacrificing things like modern medecine though they have only recently got TV it is supposed to be the happiest place on earth despite a troubled past.

Feel free to go into more detail, the topic is interesting.

We are so decadent in western society, sex sells everything. Money is the driving force behind every factor of our lives and government, our arts are slowly being corrupted by product placement and advertising.

However on topic:

When did we find it? Is the author of these words suffering from the rose tinted glasses syndrome of thinking there was some golden age in the past. Things are bad now they were bad then.

Perhaps you are right. But has it ever been this bad?
Music, which for me should be a true and great art form, has become a bastardized version of itself.
With no end to the shite that pours out of the 'industry'.
Slowly everything is being turned into a market and not an art form.
With things being 'designed' rather than created.
This artificial art is destroying something that should be a expression of human creativity

Suffering from thoughts of egaliterianism. Everyone is not equal, a lot of people are born with no more capability than this.

I disagree, i think everyone is born with the same capability, and the same flaws.
We as individuals chose to express our flaws and capabilities in different ways,
But ultimately, our system requires neither from most of us to function.
My Job requires nothing of me, it requires me to open, close, press buttons and stack objects.
I am the 'mire' and as nothing is required of us, nothing is given. But we are still capable.

Although I do not believe we can call ourselves a true and just society when money and the love of corrupts every part of our social structure.

This is my point.
How can any of us, anyone, claim that 'our society' is better, or more enlightened than another.
I often hear people talk about the 'enlightenment of the west'.
It's a delusion, and simply does not exist.

[Denny Crane!]

Feel free to go into more detail, the topic is interesting.

I will I hope it is available for listen again on radio twos website. I will go seeking...

Perhaps you are right. But has it ever been this bad?
Music, which for me should be a true and great art form, has become a bastardized version of itself.
With no end to the shite that pours out of the 'industry'.
Slowly everything is being turned into a market and not an art form.
With things being 'designed' rather than created.
This artificial art is destroying something that should be a expression of human creativity

I have noticed product placement becoming worse in films, though I must say it is really only prevalent in bad films. Blade trinity, Irobot and others not exactly the pinnacles of modern cinema. The music and film that can be found today though is of the best quality. Cinematic techniques and musical styles are being explored in ways they never have.

Because there is such a volume of art being produced there is more chaff than wheat but it is there in more abundance than ever. We are seeing the eadvent of a new media as well that is really coming into its own, the video game.

My musical tastes vary from classical to rock and psychadellic trance, having studied guitar I have looked deeply into quite a few different styles which I would not otherwise have listened to. Some of my favorite tunes are from the '60's however there weren't half the genres available to me then that there are now and so equally some of my favorite tunes were written in the last few years. Films are a different story, most of my favorites were made in the last twelve years.

Things have never been worse... Things have never been better you are just not looking hard enough, for there is a lot of crap out there.

I disagree, i think everyone is born with the same capability, and the same flaws.
We as individuals chose to express our flaws and capabilities in different ways,
But ultimately, our system requires neither from most of us to function.
My Job requires nothing of me, it requires me to open, close, press buttons and stack objects.
I am the 'mire' and as nothing is required of us, nothing is given. But we are still capable.

Everyone is born with the same capability.....

I strive to learn as much as I can however, I meet people on this board who are younger than me. They have probably read less, seen less and learnt less. Yet they can argue more intelligently than me. Strive as I might I will never achieve the understanding of the universe of Stephen Hawking. At the same time I have friends who are more intelligent than me but do not have the same drive, one works in a mediocre job for mediocre pay and could do more yet he does not have the drive. He could do far more than me yet he is content. As he once told a doctor, "I have never suffered from ambition." He possibly understands life better than I do, for he is happy and content.

Our society affords us the opportunities to excel or succeed if we have the motivation. It is not required and it cannot be forced, we are what we make ourselves.

This is my point.
How can any of us, anyone, claim that 'our society' is better, or more enlightened than another.
I often hear people talk about the 'enlightenment of the west'.
It's a delusion, and simply does not exist.

The iniquities of our society are undeniable, we are far from enlightened. We are better than the islamic dictatorships and African despots though. So is it not better that we should preach to others of the devil we know being better than the devil we don't?

Money is the great evil of our society and as long as it exists we will live like this.

EDIT: To when do you make comparisons? Compare now to any other time period, and see what you come up with.

Peter

[bigfootedfred]

I have noticed product placement becoming worse in films, though I must say it is really only prevalent in bad films. Blade trinity, Irobot and others not exactly the pinnacles of modern cinema. The music and film that can be found today though is of the best quality. Cinematic techniques and musical styles are being explored in ways they never have.

Hmm, an interesting way of thinking.
There has always been crap and good, just good survies time?
Interesting, but i still do think there is rather alot of the complete rubbish variety out there.
And the fact is, most of it is 'factory made' its designed, rather than being any kind of creative work.
Im also not sure the ratio is quite the same as it was pherhaps many years ago.

My musical tastes vary from classical to rock and psychadellic trance, having studied guitar I have looked deeply into quite a few different styles which I would not otherwise have listened to.

Well, my other part time job is giging. and you'd be suprised how many styles you do if you do the pub circuit.
Giving people a nice mix of styles is what people want down a pub (inlcuding me).
But venues you do your own, which is made by you.
The big drawback is the amount you end up spending on equipment.

Everyone is born with the same capability.....

I strive to learn as much as I can however, I meet people on this board who are younger than me. They have probably read less, seen less and learnt less. Yet they can argue more intelligently than me. Strive as I might I will never achieve the understanding of the universe of Stephen Hawking. At the same time I have friends who are more intelligent than me but do not have the same drive, one works in a mediocre job for mediocre pay and could do more yet he does not have the drive. He could do far more than me yet he is content. As he once told a doctor, "I have never suffered from ambition." He possibly understands life better than I do, for he is happy and content.

Well, as i have never heard any evidence on the pressence of an "intelligence gene" or anything to liking.
It seems to me things are determined for humans by the expirenences of childhood and early childhood.
Mostly due to random chance, peoples brains develop diffrently. Expressing flaws and capabiltys diffrent to one another.
and there is evidence for that, a good deal. But none i have ever seen for some kind of 'intelligence gene'
That isnt rejected but some of the most emminet scientists.

The iniquities of our society are undeniable, we are far from enlightened. We are better than the islamic dictatorships and African despots though. So is it not better that we should preach to others of the devil we know being better than the devil we don't?

Pherhaps we shouldnt preach at all, and just help the sick, help the poverty striken, and brook no aggression?

[Ummon]

Do not ask how you can make society true and just, but how you can be true and just. The rest is beyond your control.

Your favourite stoic said: vindica te tibi.

Translation: reclaim yourself for yourself.

[wilpuri]

What do you suggest as an alternative?

[Perkele]

pfft. Not everyone can be enlightened, and you're probaply one of those persons who thinks he is better and knows better than anyone else.

[Last Roman]

pfft. Not everyone can be enlightened, and you're probaply one of those persons who thinks he is better and knows better than anyone else.

that's a very cynical view of it.

I agree to the original statement to a point. People do seem more concerned about what happens to others (and not the important stuff, but seemingly superfloeous-sp? stuff such as what happened today in X celebrity's life today). But I think humanity has always been like that. It is moreso today because of technology, that useless information reaches us faster and it is more noticable. "So why don't you see that is some countries?" you may ask. Because in those countries, they tend to be more concerned with surviving.

[Veresov]

The problem is the education system and the media. Political Correctness is being force-fed to everyone and reinforced by the media. You no longer have the right to object, you must accept this, you must accept that. It is turning people into mindless robots.

[Last Roman]

The problem is the education system and the media. Political Correctness is being force-fed to everyone and reinforced by the media. You no longer have the right to object, you must accept this, you must accept that. It is turning people into mindless robots.

I disagree. The media feeds us what we want. It is the people's fault

[RZZZA]

The "west" is enlightened for the most part, that why its refered to as the "first world". Yes, compared to third world countries, we are far more advanced. This is why western countries send aid to Africa, and not the other way around.

What the original poster is commenting on, is certain tendencies, fads, and pursuits in western society that he finds stupid, detrimental, etc...

I'm not a fashion lover either, I'd love to see the Gap and Abercrombie & fitch burn to the ground...but...I dont mistake that kind of stuff for true backwardness.

[Last Roman]

I'm not a fashion lover either, I'd love to see the Gap and Abercrombie & fitch burn to the ground...but...I dont mistake that kind of stuff for true backwardness.

hey! I wear that stuff! Stuff like that isn't detrimental, it isn't "enlightening", but fashion has also been a part of western society as far back as the Romans (and probably longer)

[RZZZA]

hey! I wear that stuff!

I'm....so sorry.

[.Socrates]

Fashion is keeping our individuality.
What if it was like private schools, where everyone dresses the same? That would suck.

[Harlanite]

Fashion is keeping our individuality.

Do you really think so? All I see around me are hordes of sheep.

[Zuwxiv]

"Why don't we take the worning labels off and let the problem solve itself?"

There are too many ignorant, self-absorbed individuals who contrubute nothing but contaminated DNA to the gene pool.

[Jab5450]

There is nothing new under the sun.

[Denny Crane!]

I would agree that people are to affected by consumerism. We are hit from cradle to grave with adverts telling what we need and what is the best. Part of the reason society has an increasing crime rate is a disenfranchised generation that feels it should be wearing all the top gear and own all the latest gadgets. They are not acheiving the instant success and pop star/football life they have been raised to admire.

People who blindly follow fashion trouble me.

Peter