Legendary is shocking

**danningt** · June 28, 2011, 04:35 AM

Been playing VH all along, thought good enough to give L a try. Read all about it, yet nothing, I mean nothing prepared me for a shock like this!
Play ODA, by God it's ridiculous!
Had a good start, destroyed the rebal army, castle defense beaten back Sato and Tokugawa at turn 1. I thought not too bad, wasn't so hard. Could not have been more wrong! For the next 5 turns, Tokugawa invaded with half stack EVERY TURN! The very friendly Kitabatake declared war for no reason. Hattori is even worse, paid him 1000 to get trade, next turn they declared war on me. Fighting like a dog, all armies seriously depleted. Then Takeda declared war on me 2 turns after trade agreement AGAIN! AI army can travel vast distance, Takeda sent 2 stacks, reaching Mino from South Shinano in the SAME TURN! Routed them with heavy loses, next turn they sent 3.5 stacks with Takeda Shingen already at level 6!
So, given up at turn 15. facing 1 full stack per turn is just too much for me. Simply don't have enouggh time to replenish the troops.
Diplomacy is out of the window here, there's no diplomacy, AI don't care crap about it.
AI does not spawn armies, ok, they can produce almost half stack per turn in a single province, what's the difference?
NO MORE Legendary for me! And all the folks has beaten L, congratulations, don't know how you did it, great efforts!

**wealthmonger** · June 28, 2011, 04:58 AM

next turn they sent 3.5 stacks with Takeda Shingen already at level 6!

well thanks alot I was going to try legendary Oda pretty soon now you scared me. So now I'm thinking of hopping on a european trade ship and heading for a less violent land.

**Erwin Rommel** · June 28, 2011, 05:10 AM

Dramatization time. Read with the voice of the shameful display guy.

TONO!!! The Takeda have come back again, this time with 3 armies with Shingen-dono at its head! They are now in Mino!

TONO!!! The Hattori have severed trade relations with us. Hanzo-dono cites the reasons coz he does not like to deal with the "buffon of Owari". They are massing troops in Omi ready to attack us!!

TONO!! The Tokugawa again have enroached our lands with a small raiding army in Mikawa!!

TONO!!! The Kitabatake are again sending another army!1

TONO!!! The Tenno Heika is levying funds to all his "loyal" daimyos for 5000 kuko for the purchase of a jacuzzi and outdoor onsen bath in his palace in Kyoto, failure to comply would mean a loss of honor and face for the clan!!!

TONO!!! The Shimazu have sent a message that war exists between our clans! His reasons are that we have insulted his vassal clan the Otomo when we caused "unjust vexation" during a party.

TONO!!! Your son, Nobukado, has been killed by the Asai clan, he said we have broken our agreement and due to soured relations!!!

TONO!! TONO?!! TONO!!! ORDERS TONO!!! YOUR ORDERS!! HOW DO WE RESPOND!!? TONO?!!

*As Oda Nobunaga secretely moves to commit seppuku infront of the messengers awaiting for his commands. The shouts of the messengers where silenced when another one brought something shouting it as good news. Nobunaga hesitates with his dagger thinking this might reverse the fortunes of the Oda Clan. Has his Taira ancestors finally smiled upon him? Has Hachiman saw him fit to be still alive and ruling this clan. Could this be the new beginning?!*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Thiril** · June 28, 2011, 05:13 AM

I finished my Legendary campagin with Oda, seems the only one that works for me with the improved ashigaru's.
(although currently a Shimazu campaing is going smooth, they have an excellent starting location)

The trick is to make a vassal out of the Tokugawa asap, they'll hold your southern borders for a while.
Next head north towards the ikko ikki, but try to wait until they declare war on the hattori, ally with the hattori and they won't betray you for a while.
From the moment you have a province or 6, you can pretty much hold of anything in that center. Betray the Tokugawa (if they havn't betrayed you allready) and march south to Imagawa.
Most of the time they don't have that strong defences. Hojo will be occupied with the Satomi and Takeda will be expanding north. (Never, ever seen a Takeda force coming from Kai, ever)
Congratulations, now you have the center of Japan and you can start preparing to hold off a bazillion stacks coming from everywhere!

**danningt** · June 28, 2011, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Thiril

I finished my Legendary campagin with Oda, seems the only one that works for me with the improved ashigaru's.
(although currently a Shimazu campaing is going smooth, they have an excellent starting location)

The trick is to make a vassal out of the Tokugawa asap, they'll hold your southern borders for a while.
Next head north towards the ikko ikki, but try to wait until they declare war on the hattori, ally with the hattori and they won't betray you for a while.
From the moment you have a province or 6, you can pretty much hold of anything in that center. Betray the Tokugawa (if they havn't betrayed you allready) and march south to Imagawa.
Most of the time they don't have that strong defences. Hojo will be occupied with the Satomi and Takeda will be expanding north. (Never, ever seen a Takeda force coming from Kai, ever)
Congratulations, now you have the center of Japan and you can start preparing to hold off a bazillion stacks coming from everywhere!

I deliberately let Tokugawa live, half stack per turn is easily handled with 4 archers and 2 yari and can train my general. Imagawa will not attack me while Tokugawa still lives. The main problem is that I find diplomacy means absolutely zilch in L. AI can betray you recklessly. Hattori already dead, steamrolled by Ikki vermints. And Ikki really hates ODA. My economy only allows a bit over 1 stack, I manage to send 12 units into Omi, but totally bog down by Ikki's 1 army per turn attacking me from North.
The crazy AI's total disregard of diplomacy is the game breaker on L.

**lamefellow** · June 28, 2011, 05:49 AM

Lol....awesome narration

**Akusa** · June 28, 2011, 07:26 AM

my advice is not to play vanilla

**Little Legionaire** · June 28, 2011, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Akusa

my advice is not to play vanilla

Ok, not to play vanilla... Try what then? Any suggestions?

**Fuzzynut** · June 28, 2011, 08:33 AM

I will suggest the All in One and Darth Mod's. But have not tried others yet so can not comment on how they compare.

**KittySN** · June 28, 2011, 08:45 AM

It took me a few reattempts to understand how to approach Oda--probably the quickest "screw up and you're dead" faction when it comes to Legendary. If you hold Saito, you make too many fronts. Consider making a vassal of Saito on turn 1 as a buffer, else Ikko-Ikki will later pick a fight along with Takeda, and I think Saito starts off with its army away from its province so it's a super easy capture. Then immediately start blitzing through Tokugawa and Imagawa after killing the rebels while upgrading your capital, spamming every ashigaru you can make. That's how I survived anyways. Once you get a foothold, it becomes rather easy. Like most of the "tricky" factions, the hardest part is surviving the start. Oh, and you might want to make Imagawa a vassal too after killing it off to 1 province, that way you can turn your focus back up north when Saito bites the dust and your capital comes under fire. Takeda, Hojo and Imagawa start off on good terms or allied I believe, so it's a safe buffer.

**spicykorean** · June 29, 2011, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by KittySN

It took me a few reattempts to understand how to approach Oda--probably the quickest "screw up and you're dead" faction when it comes to Legendary. If you hold Saito, you make too many fronts. Consider making a vassal of Saito on turn 1 as a buffer, else Ikko-Ikki will later pick a fight along with Takeda, and I think Saito starts off with its army away from its province so it's a super easy capture. Then immediately start blitzing through Tokugawa and Imagawa after killing the rebels while upgrading your capital, spamming every ashigaru you can make. That's how I survived anyways. Once you get a foothold, it becomes rather easy. Like most of the "tricky" factions, the hardest part is surviving the start. Oh, and you might want to make Imagawa a vassal too after killing it off to 1 province, that way you can turn your focus back up north when Saito bites the dust and your capital comes under fire. Takeda, Hojo and Imagawa start off on good terms or allied I believe, so it's a safe buffer.

You can actually vassal Saito right off the bat w/o a fight with diplomacy. Also, you can get the Hojo and Takeda to break their alliance and that will delay any Takeda incursions.