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    Default U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    http://www.scotusblog.com/?p=123052



    Holding: California’s ban on the sale or rental of violent video games to minors is unconstitutional. The Court held that the law imposes a restriction on the content of protected speech and cannot satisfy strict scrutiny.


    Judgment: Affirmed, 7-2, in an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia on June 27, 2011. Justice Alito filed an opinion concurring in the judgment, which was joined by the Chief Justice Roberts. Justices Thomas and Breyer filed dissenting opinions.


    Analysis: Of old values and modernity

    Reacting to changing times, the Court forbids government regulation of violent video games — even for young children. And it promises new looks at government’s power to protect children from profanity and nudity in broadcasting, and the government’s power to use electronic monitoring of private activity.



    Boldly proclaiming that old constitutional principles do not yield to new waves of technology, but leaving itself chances to make some exceptions, the Supreme Court on Monday flatly barred state legislatures and Congress from trying to shield children from violent video games, took on anew the issue of whether government can protect children from dirty words and adult nudity on TV and radio, and promised a new decision on high-tech police surveillance and its impact on individual privacy. On the last public session of the Term, when modernity was front-and-center on the Court’s docket, the Justices were clearly not of one mind about it, and were not promising that they would be when they next explore today’s changing values.

    It is clearly a feature of modern life that teens — and sub-teens — spend hours and hours playing electronic games, for better or for worse. In a vivid response Monday, the Court’s majority made very clear that that was none of the government’s business (at least when violence, not obscenity, is what the children observe on their computers or electronic display modules). The Court used the broadest constitutional language open to it to accomplish that result, apparently leaving no room for government to try different approaches.
    But, guaranteeing that the Court’s next Term will also test the Justices’ reaction to changing times (and, very likely, will again divide them), the Court said Monday that it will rule on society’s supposedly increasing tolerance of profanity and nudity, and on society’s rising nervousness about privacy when the government uses Digital Age devices to monitor an individual’s every move. The centuries-old limitations of the First and Fourth Amendments will again be very much at issue.
    On violent video games, the Court’s members took four different approaches in Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (08-1448) to a California law that made it a crime to sell or rent the games to anyone under the age of 18 (if a parent or other adult was not with the youth). But only one of those approaches counted: the conclusion that the state’s law was a forbidden attempt to create a new exception to free-speech rights by regulating youths’ access to violent video content — no matter how “disgusting” the content or how young the children. That view had the unqualified support of five Justices.
    Speaking through an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia, the majority insisted that it was not blinding itself to arguments that new video technology was different, nor to the argument that exposure to such games may become a “problem.” “Perhaps they do present a problem, and perhaps none of us would allow our own children to play them,” Scalia wrote. But, he quickly added, there are “all sorts of ‘problems’…that cannot be addressed by governmental restrictions on free expression.”
    The Scalia opinion drew an exceedingly bright constitutional line between obscenity and violence, with obscenity outside the First Amendment and violent expression within it. The majority commented that the Court has never taken violent expression out from under the First Amendment’s protection. The new ruling, in fact, was said to be a direct outgrowth of the Court’s decision the prior Term, striking down a federal law that banned video or other depictions of animal cruelty, on the premise that violent displays were a form of protected free speech. That was the ruling in U.S. v. Stevens.
    There was, however, a clear difference between Stevens and Monday’s ruling: in Stevens, the Court had said explicitly that a legislature could perhaps write a narrower law about animal cruelty that would satisfy the Constitution; no such opening was left for laws to deny children access to violent video games. The law at issue was invalid because of the very words of regulation it contained, the Court said — meaning that it could imagine no set of facts that would allow such a law to be enforced.
    The sweeping reach of the new decision could be traced, perhaps predominantly, to the fact that the majority was not persuaded by any of the research literature that suggests that children who watch violent video games are led to engage in dangerous or other harmful behavior themselves.
    A secondary aspect of the ruling’s rejection of this research was an explicit declaration that, in terms of impact on children’s minds and behavior, such games really do not draw the child into the narrative personally any more than, say, reading a book (including, perhaps, a comic book), movie, or TV program with a violent theme. That video games are said to be more “interactive,” Justice Scalia said, “is nothing new.” Indeed, the majority opinion was quite dismissive of the supposed impact of such violent games on children, suggesting that research merely shows “miniscule real-world effects,” such as a finding that a child makes “louder noises” after playing such a game.
    Playing games on video, Scalia said, is “different in kind” from other forms of expression, but “not in a way that causes the provision and viewing of violent video games, unlike the provision and reading of books, not to be expressive activity and hence not to enjoy First Amendment protection. Reading Dante is unquestionably more cultured and intellectually edifying than playing Mortal Kombat. But these cultural and intellectual differences are not constitutional ones.”
    To a recital by Justice Samuel A. Alito, Jr., of what the Scalia opinion called “disgusting video games,” the majority said those descriptions were designed “to disgust us, but disgust is not a valid basis for restricting expression.”
    While the majority made a fervent argument that it was up to parents, not the government, to determine what their minor children may watch on a video device, the main opinion also strongly upheld an independent right of minors to access to information, based on an independent right to “be spoken to without their parents’ consent.”
    The Scalia opinion was considerably abbreviated, at only 18 pages, considering his normal writing on major subjects. It was joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Elena Kagan, Anthony M. Kennedy, and Sonia Sotomayor.
    The second approach to the validity of curbs on violent video games was Justice Alito’s, but it drew the support of only Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr. They would have struck down the California law as too vague to give people full warning of what was being banned for children. It was clear that Alito and the Chief Justice were firmly opposed to the breadth of the Scalia opinion, and sought to make a very strong case for the general idea that legislatures and Congress should have significant authority to try to stamp out the distribution of such games to children. They would not have applied a rigorous constitutional standard to such laws.
    The third approach to the phenomenon of such games was that of Justice Clarence Thomas, who wrote a dissent speaking only for himself. In an exhaustive view of how parental control of children was understood in the era of the Founding generation in the eighteenth Century, Thomas argued that the First Amendment simply did not give children any right, on their own, to free speech. If government wishes to speak to children, he wrote, it must do so only through the parents. “Although much has changed in this country since the Revolution, the notion that parents have authority over their children and that the law can support that authority persists today,” Thomas said.
    And the fourth approach was that of Justice Stephen G. Breyer, who agreed in his own dissenting opinion with the majority that laws regulating minors’ access to such games should be judged by a very tough constitutional standard. But, just as the Court in the past had found that the First Amendment allows government to protect children from exposure to obscenity, Breyer would allow it to do so for “highly realistic violent video games,” with the restriction on access limited to those under age 17.
    Before the Court handed down its ruling in that case Monday morning, it issued orders announcing that it would be reexamining, at its next Term, a different issue on protecting children from expression that some deem harmful to them, and a different issue on modern technology.
    Because the Scalia opinion in the violent video case drew such a sharp distinction between protecting children from violent expression as compared to obscene expression, it is far from clear that the Court will decide by the same voting lineup the case it will be reviewing on the government’s power to ban — for the sake of protecting children — what federal law calls “indecent” expression on radio and TV programs. Obscenity is not at issue in the new case of Federal Communications Commission v. Fox Television Stations, et al. (10-1293), but the protection from children from profanity and nudity considered harmful to them is directly at issue.
    Two years ago, Justice Scalia wrote for a 5-4 majority that the FCC does have authority, under a law dating back to 1927, to forbid the broadcast of any single use of the F-word or the S-word. In that opinion, Scalia argued that it was reasonable for the Commission to conclude “that the pervasiveness of foul language, and the coarsening of public entertainment in other media such as cable,” justified an FCC regulation that bans the broadcast of any indecency, if it is put on the air between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. — the hours when, presumably, children would be in the viewing or listening audience.
    At that time, the Commission’s authority had the support of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Alito, Kennedy, and Thomas. Justices Breyer and Ginsburg dissented (along with then-serving Justices David H. Souter and John Paul Stevens — since replaced by Justices Sotomayor and Kagan, respectively).
    What the Court did not decide in that prior ruling, however, was whether the FCC policy against “fleeting expletives” was valid under the First Amendment. That constitutional question was sent back to the Second Circuit Court, resulting in the decision now to be reviewed; the Second Circuit struck down the policy in its entirety. The case, then and now, involves FCC rulings that Fox TV stations violated the anti-indecency policy by broadcasting two TV award programs in which actresses used the F-word or the S-word.
    The appeals court, in that case, nullified the “fleeting expletive” policy. It then applied that ruling — in a separate case — to strike down the use of the indecency regulation against displays on TV of adult female nudity, if done in a suggestive way. That second ruling overturned a fine the FCC had imposed on ABC-TV stations for broadcasting a partial nudity scene on a police drama program, NYPD Blue.
    The FCC, in its new appeal to the Supreme Court, asked the Justices to uphold its policy both as it applied to “fleeting expletives” and to “scripted nudity.” The Court on Monday granted review in FCC v. Fox TV and ABC-TV, et al. (10-1293), but re-wrote the only question that it said it would answer: whether the “current indecency enforcement regime” violates the First or Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. Justice Sotomayor, a former judge on the Second Circuit, will not take part in the review. A hearing and decision will come in the Term starting Oct. 3.
    Just as the Court confronted new technology in a constitutional context in the violent video games case, it will do so again in the second highly controversial new case it granted on Monday: a test of the constitutionality of using GPS technology so that police can track wherever a suspect travels in a car or truck. When a GPS (Global Positioning System) device is attached to a vehicle, police can monitor, from a good distance away, all of the routes that that vehicle takes. (GPS is a satellite-based system that can pinpoint the accuracy of a receiving device — and thus the position of an object to which the device is attached — within 50 feet.)
    In a ruling in the 1983 case of U.S. v.Knotts, the Court had decided that the use of an electronic beeper, hidden secretly in a container that was then stashed in the suspect’s car, was not a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, so no warrant was required. That decision was confined, however, to a situation in which police used the device to track a single trip in the car to the suspect’s drug laboratory. The ruling left open the question of whether a warrant would be required in a situation involving a 24-hour surveillance, in a “dragnet-type” effort by police.
    Federal appeals courts are now divided over whether the use of a GPS tracking device, over an extended period without a warrant, is a search that violates the Fourth Amendment. In the case that the Justices will be reviewing (U.S.v. Jones, 10-1259), the Justice Department is appealing a D.C. Circuit Court ruling that the use of a GPS tracking device secretly installed on a suspect’s car, and kept operating without a warrant for 28 days, violated the Fourth Amendment. The case involves a Washington, D.C., drug dealer, Antoine Jones. With information gathered by the GPS on a Jeep Grand Cherokee that Jones drove, prosecutors got a conviction of him for conspiracy to distribute cocaine; he was sentenced to life in prison and ordered to forfeit $1 million in drug trafficking proceeds.
    The government’s appeal in that case involved only the issue of whether prolonged use of a GPS device was a search under the Fourth Amendment. The Court added for its review another question: whether the initial installation of the device on Jones’ car violated the Fourth Amendment, when he did not consent and there was no warrant.
    The separate issue of whether initial installation violated the Fourth Amendment had been raised before the Court in a second GPS tracking case originating in Oregon, Pineda-Moreno v. U.S. (10-7515). The Court did not grant review of that case, but added the issue of installation into its review of the Jones case. It will be heard and decided next Term.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Does this just strike down the ban in California, or all the states?

  3. #3

    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    Does this just strike down the ban in California, or all the states?
    It is CA's law. So it is struck down in CA. With this decision in place, i doubt any other state will enact the similar law because it iwll be struck down as well (at least by the current court). So ya, it effectively means u can't ban violent video games to minors in this country.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    It is CA's law. So it is struck down in CA. With this decision in place, i doubt any other state will enact the similar law because it iwll be struck down as well (at least by the current court). So ya, it effectively means u can't ban violent video games to minors in this country.
    Maybe its just the store chain then, but in South Carolina you cannot buy a violent video game if your a minor. You have to get an adult to buy it for you.

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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    Maybe its just the store chain then, but in South Carolina you cannot buy a violent video game if your a minor. You have to get an adult to buy it for you.
    I've seen studies done on that. Video game stores as an industry had better rates of not selling to minors than any other industry (and it was by a significant amount).
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    Maybe its just the store chain then, but in South Carolina you cannot buy a violent video game if your a minor. You have to get an adult to buy it for you.
    It's not a law though, it's store policy.

    95% of stores will continue requiring ID and not selling M rated games to kids, but it's not illegal to sell an M rated game to kids.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    I have always found it amusing that the games they keep touting as violent and making laws like this necessary (namely the last few Grand Theft Auto games, and Soldier of Fortune I and II, etc.) are some of the most immersing and replayable games I have ever purchased. Maybe I am just a violent person?



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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    The most amusing thing I'm getting out of this case was the fact that this case, of all cases, was not split along political stances. Usually this is a subject where liberals are lining up with liberals and conservatives lining up with conservatives.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The most amusing thing I'm getting out of this case was the fact that this case, of all cases, was not split along political stances. Usually this is a subject where liberals are lining up with liberals and conservatives lining up with conservatives.
    free speech cases typically are less ideologically driven. For example, scalia agreed that flag burning is protected as free speech, an issue conservatives are really against.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Well the GTA games are immersive because of the world, not because of the violence.

    I always felt like the soldier of fortune games were too generic and boring, although I only ever played the demos.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Well the GTA games are immersive because of the world, not because of the violence.

    I always felt like the soldier of fortune games were too generic and boring, although I only ever played the demos.
    I agree on GTA. Soldier of Fortune II was fun (mmm maybe intriguing is the better word) for me simply because it was so gory for the time. I mean you could literally blow every piece of flesh, organ, bone, extremity, etc off of the enemy with your guns. Way over the top though lol Probably why few games have gone back to that kind of gore when dealing with human vs human killing.



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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    All these video game rues expose social hypocrisy.

    Apparently strategy games (where you direct hundreds to kill hundreds or even tens of thousands in HOI series) is OK but FPS where you hold a gun and shoot ... a couple dozen at the most ... is bad. And it gets worse when there's women involved (breasts).
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    minors still need money to buy games.

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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Good decision but I'm still for stores requiring an adult (16+) to buy M rated games. This law was written by one of the whiniest State reps we have. I'm hoping he's redistricted out next year.
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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    You could argue that,assuming that video games caused harm to minors,Strategy games and FPS's would both be equal in potential damage.Nudity is A different matter,generally the same rules are applied to both TV,Film and Games in relation to that type of content.

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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Why doesnt this strike down movie regulations as well?

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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Why doesnt this strike down movie regulations as well?
    I think it has to do with simulated violence vs 'real' (real people being filmed in violence). I know they make distinctions as far as 'fantasy violence' 'sci fi violence' and 'cartoon violence' as well.



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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckybandit View Post
    I think it has to do with simulated violence vs 'real' (real people being filmed in violence). I know they make distinctions as far as 'fantasy violence' 'sci fi violence' and 'cartoon violence' as well.
    That isn't a legal argument though, it is just a moral or ethical argument. If a game is considerd protected speach and a movie is considerd protected speach then there should be no differance in the eyes of the law.

    All in all I think this is a good ruling. For all I cair the stores could require an 18 or older proof and a live goat to buy an M rated game but the government realy has no grounds to make the call. It also makes a little head way in the lagitimacy of games as an art form.

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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by Disaray View Post
    That isn't a legal argument though, it is just a moral or ethical argument. If a game is considerd protected speach and a movie is considerd protected speach then there should be no differance in the eyes of the law.
    Perhaps there is a legal difference between consuming a good (buying a video game) and viewing something? When you buy a movie ticket you are paying to watching a film in a public place, not buying a piece of it for private consumption. No idea really just shooting in the dark trying to find a difference here.



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    Default Re: U.S Supreme Court struck down California ban on selling "violent" video games to children

    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckybandit View Post
    Perhaps there is a legal difference between consuming a good (buying a video game) and viewing something? When you buy a movie ticket you are paying to watching a film in a public place, not buying a piece of it for private consumption. No idea really just shooting in the dark trying to find a difference here.
    Ya, I am not 100% sure but I don't think that legaly falows eather. When you get right down to it in eather case, going to the movies or buying a game, you are still engaging a bussiness in a private transaction. The only practical distinction is the way in wich the two media are normaly consumed; though there is nothing stoping me from taking my computer out on to the lawn, in public, and play the most violent video games I can get my hands on. So it can be well argued that they are, from a leagal stand point, the same thing.

    I think I have found a differance though, listening to a lawyer that specalizes in Constatutional law talk about this very case on the radio. He said that, according to the Constatution, the governement can limit the speach of the people in a hand full of very narowly defined ways, such as fighting words, insiting violence and profanity sexual acts ect. Now one could couch the restriction of children from R rated movies in one of these exceptions. It is still a bit shakey realy, the power of the president set down in this case is fairly strong, all one would have to do is link the two subjects leagaly.

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