Marius - Historic Reference?

**iDirt** · March 16, 2006, 06:12 AM

Marius, Gaius Julius Caesars uncle, he was actually a consul of rome, but died in battle against the other Consul, Sulla, who had turned against rome in civil war. I was just wondering how the hell he can occur 230 years before he was born!? This is crazy.

**Avgvstvs Octavian** · March 16, 2006, 06:36 AM

When Marius comes around in the game varies from campaign to campaign. It comes whenever you finish your first Imperial Palace.

And I thought that Marius died in Rome after taking it from Sulla, and then Sulla came back and took it from (I can't remember this guy's name..Maybe Cato?)

**Knight of Rome** · March 16, 2006, 07:41 AM

yeah that is true about how the marius event occurs in the game......as for the historical reference to what happened i think that was how it did really happen, though i can not remember exactly.

**iDirt** · March 16, 2006, 08:47 AM

Well, besiclly this is what happened.

Sulla and Marius were both consuls of rome, they were two giants both very popular. By the time Caesar was around 16/17 and under the protection of Marius the senate voted that Sulla would deal with a threat in Macedon. So Sulla goes away for almost a year and a half, and the minute he's out of Romes gates Marius starts to look over the cities defences, cause he's not going to let him back in again. A year and a half passes by and the week before Sulla returns Caesar gets married. Well, to stick to the story. Sulla arrives and Marius is 100% sure he can protect Rome when his bodyguards are attacked from behind by disguised troops sulla left behind, and Sulla kills him. When he falls Sulla doesnt get the reaction he wants, instead of fleeing, Marius legion called The Firstborn went furious, led by some new guy, O-something who eventually evens out with sulla, none of them can win. Therefor, they settle on the conditions that everything goes back to normal, and Marius consul position is taken by he's closest male relative, Caesar. Ceasar however had no intentions on sharing the power with Sulla, and so on. After that you all know the story..

**mzocker** · March 16, 2006, 09:50 AM

THIS is what REALLY happened!!!

**iDirt** · March 16, 2006, 09:55 AM

Well, after reading your link, i guess i was talking about Gaius Marius the Younger, that was what i was questioning in the first place tho. Cause the older Marius was definally not married to some Julia, hes wife was named Metella.

**Imperator Sulla** · May 19, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by iDirt

Well, besiclly this is what happened.

Sulla and Marius were both consuls of rome, they were two giants both very popular. By the time Caesar was around 16/17 and under the protection of Marius the senate voted that Sulla would deal with a threat in Macedon. So Sulla goes away for almost a year and a half, and the minute he's out of Romes gates Marius starts to look over the cities defences, cause he's not going to let him back in again. A year and a half passes by and the week before Sulla returns Caesar gets married. Well, to stick to the story. Sulla arrives and Marius is 100% sure he can protect Rome when his bodyguards are attacked from behind by disguised troops sulla left behind, and Sulla kills him. When he falls Sulla doesnt get the reaction he wants, instead of fleeing, Marius legion called The Firstborn went furious, led by some new guy, O-something who eventually evens out with sulla, none of them can win. Therefor, they settle on the conditions that everything goes back to normal, and Marius consul position is taken by he's closest male relative, Caesar. Ceasar however had no intentions on sharing the power with Sulla, and so on. After that you all know the story..

Untrue

Sorry, but that's what it is. Gaius Marius died of a stroke(he already had two strokes before) while he was in complete controle of Rome. He and his college Cinna had just killed al their opposition en had their heads pinned up on the Rostra. On the tenth?(not sure) day of his seventh consulship Gaius Marius died of a hemorage in his brain.

No insults please - Lusted

**Ammianus** · March 16, 2006, 01:13 PM

The Marian reforms in RTW refer to the overhall of the Roman military system that G. Marius made in late 2d C BC in response to or as a result of, I forget, which, of the Jurgarthian War fought against the King of Numidia. He shifted the basis of the military system from a seasonal recuitment from the property owning clases to a professional army equited at the state's expense and drawn from whoever would enlist, including the urban poor. There is a good short history of the Repulic by Michael Crawford.

The conflicts between G. Marius and C. Sulla took place in the 90s and 80s BC. If i'm not mistaken, Marius died in his own bed. He was married to a Julii Caesar, I think an aunt of THE Gaius Julius Caesar.

**iDirt** · March 17, 2006, 06:45 AM

Err i Think you are mistaken, or maybe i am...
Well, i always thought Sulla captured and murdered Marius in front of his troops. Didnt Sulla siege Rome?
And i am quite sure Marius was married to Metella. And Juluis Caesar the olders wife was Marius sister. And that Julius Caesar the older was killed in a slave revolt?

**Proximus** · March 17, 2006, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by iDirt

Err i Think you are mistaken, or maybe i am...
Well, i always thought Sulla captured and murdered Marius in front of his troops. Didnt Sulla siege Rome?
And i am quite sure Marius was married to Metella. And Juluis Caesar the olders wife was Marius sister. And that Julius Caesar the older was killed in a slave revolt?

To shed some light on this issue.

Originally Posted by Wiki

While Sulla was on campaign in Greece, fighting broke out between the conservative supporters of Octavius and the popular supporters of Cinna. Marius along with his son then returned from exile in Africa with an army he had raised there and combined with Cinna to oust Octavius. This time it was the army of Marius that entered Rome. Based on the orders of Marius, some of his soldiers went through Rome killing the leading supporters of Sulla, including Octavius. Their heads were exhibited in the Forum. After five days, Cinna ordered his more disciplined troops to kill Marius's rampaging soldiers. All told some 100 Roman nobles had been murdered. The Senate passed a law exiling Sulla and Marius was appointed the new commander in the eastern war. Cinna was chosen for his second Consulship and Marius to his seventh Consulship. However, just one month after his return to Rome, Marius died suddenly at the age of seventy-one

.

And Sulla did indeed capture Rome.

Originally Posted by Wiki

Cinna was elected to two more Consulships afterwards and then died during a mutiny when trying to lead his forces into Greece. The forces of Sulla returned to Italy at Brundisium in 83 BC, and the sons of Marius died defending Praeneste, a city east of Rome. Upon his return to Rome, Sulla instituted a new reign of terror that dwarfed everything that came before. Thousands of Senators and other Roman nobles who had supported Marius in any way were outlawed and executed. Julius Caesar, a nephew of the wife of the older Marius, and married to a daughter of Cinna, was one of the many who were outlawed. However Caesar fled to Cilicia and lived there until Sulla's death in 78 BC.

As for Marius marrigies ,he did marry Julia, the aunt of Julius Caesar roughly 110 BC.

And as far as I know Juluis Caesar the older were not married to Marius sister, as a matter of fact I' pretty sure that was not the case. The Julii were an old Patrician family, and Mariius was a "new man" and from the country side as well.
And I think that Ceasar the Older died of old age, but I'm not certain.

And it was Sulla that married Metella, not Marius.

**iDirt** · March 17, 2006, 08:06 AM

Thanks for letting me know, tho, Sulla was in the North East Macedon, not in Greece

**hellheaven1987** · March 18, 2006, 12:36 AM

I'm not sure about it, but I know Marius just took the last stage of the reform of Rome Legion. In fact, the reform had begaun very long time, and Marius just gave the last and greatest strike on it.

Anyway, I have a question, is the Marius Reform in game really caused by Marius? I mean, is there really have a "Marius" in game to cause the reform? If I finished the civil war earlier than the reform, or I assassin Marius, would it be possible for the reform appears?

**Sidus Preclarum** · March 18, 2006, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by hellheaven1987

I'm not sure about it, but I know Marius just took the last stage of the reform of Rome Legion. In fact, the reform had begaun very long time, and Marius just gave the last and greatest strike on it.

namely, Marius was instrumental in the "social" pannel of the reform, ie the transformation of a peasant-army to a professional army, ie from the "land is a condition to serve in the legions" to "land is a reward for service in the legions"
Now, for the "military" pannel of the reform , ie the rationalization of the 3 lines of the Polybian legion into much more standardized cohort, and the adoption of the cohort as both a tactical and strategical base unit, it's a slow change brought about, I gather, from lengthy pacification campaigns in Iberia after the second Punic war.

Anyway, I have a question, is the Marius Reform in game really caused by Marius? I mean, is there really have a "Marius" in game to cause the reform? If I finished the civil war earlier than the reform, or I assassin Marius, would it be possible for the reform appears?

No. No Marius character in Game. Others will tell you exactly what the triggers are, but grosso modo it has to do with having some buildings in mainland Italy.