Caste discrimination, why isn't it illegal in the UK?

[mongrel]

When the last (UK) government decided to review all Equality legislation, for some reason they left out the issue of caste discrimination. For the life of me I cannot find any obvious reason for this, particularly as they took the trouble to commission a report on the extent of the problem.

The report and HMG's progress on the issue can be found here


http://www.equalities.gov.uk/equalit...010/caste.aspx

Abstract from research findings "Caste discrimination and harassment in Great Britain"

Caste discrimination and harassment has not been explicitly covered by British discrimination legislation. However, the Equality Act 2010 includes the provision that, by order of a Minister, caste may be treated as an aspect of race. This research was commissioned to help inform the Government whether to exercise this power. The research sought to identify whether caste discrimination and harassment in relation to aspects covered by discrimination legislation (i.e. work, education and the supply of goods and services) exists in Britain. Evidence suggesting such discrimination and harassment was found.
Key findings
• The term ‘caste’ is used to identify a number of different concepts, notably, varna (a Hindu religious caste system), jati (an occupational caste system) and biraderi (often referred to as a clan system). The examples of caste discrimination identified related to jati.
• Caste awareness in Britain is concentrated amongst people with roots in the Indian sub-continent (who comprise five per cent of the population). It is not religion specific and is subscribed to by (and affects) members of any or no religion.
• The study identified evidence suggesting caste discrimination and harassment of the type covered by the Equality Act 2010 in relation to:
- work (bullying, recruitment, promotion, task allocation;
- provision of services; and
- education (pupil on pupil bullying) .
• The study also identified evidence suggesting caste discrimination and harassment which may fall outside the Equality Act 2010 in relation to voluntary work, harassment, demeaning behaviour and violence.
• The caste discrimination and harassment identified in this study was by higher castes against the lowest castes.
• There is no clear evidence on whether the extent of caste discrimination and harassment is changing. There are both positive and negative influences at work.
• To reduce caste discrimination and harassment the Government might take educative or legislative approaches. Either would be useful in the public sector. However, non-legislative approaches are less likely to be effective in the private sector and do not assist those where the authorities themselves are discriminating. Relying on the Indian community to take action to reduce caste discrimination and harassment is problematic.
• Equality Act 2010 provisions on religious discrimination cannot cover caste discrimination and harassment as effectively as caste-specific provisions would.

HMG's current position is

A mandarin "The Government has not yet taken a decision on whether or not to provide explicit legal protection for caste discrimination. Ministers are currently considering the findings and implications of the report by the National Institute for Economic and Social Research (NIESR) and are committed to ensuring that the decision they make will be the most effective and proportionate method of dealing with any caste-based prejudice and discrimination in our society."

Could I suggest that the most effective and proportionate method of dealing with caste-based prejudice and discrimination wold be to outlaw it?

One journalist has recently picked up the issue.

Nick Cohen "The secret scandal of Britain's caste system

Why isn't the Equality and Human Rights Commission taking action against this prejudice?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...discrimination


Caste discrimination is as pernicious as racism, no matter what the affected individual does, he or she cannot escape their heritage. At the time HMG was fixated with Polish migrants allegedly stealing "British jobs" and those brown beardy chaps making a nusiance of themselves. For all the talk of Britishness and the need for some groups to integrate, the same government kicked this issue into the long grass.

Although I do not agree with some of what Mr Cohen says, parking the issue and treating minorities as monolithic blocks does not constitute promoting a liberal agenda, it is a most illiberal attitude as far as I can see.

However in most respects Mr Cohen presents a reasonable case, the new government doesn't owe anyone any favours. It should treat the issue with the seriousness it deserves.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well yeah it's open and shut.

[DaniCatBurger]

British laws are all the same for everyone. So, how can there be a discrimination because of an exotic tradition that has no legal consequences in the UK? I guess, I do not understand fully. I assume there are anti-discrimination laws in UK and they probably sanction actual disadvantages a person could receive because of origin and birth. Cast discrimination conflicts certainly with human rights and could therefore in any case brought to courts. One could ask, why should there be a legal precision in a case that is as such already extra legem. - I still try to understand the reasoning. So, maybe it is more a question of public education than one of legislation. - Interesting topic, but I do not understand the problem in respect to law, yet.

..........

Just a thought, but maybe the issue should be brought down to the question of how the Law and Ethics can relate or not.
We need to keep Ethics out of Law as much as possible from my point of view, not necessarily from the practise of law but from the Laws as such.

[Sher Khan]

Simple.

Because 'class' is an unspoken quality that isn't exactly covered by the usual protected characteristics like gender, race or religion.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well caste is not quite class, as it is hereditary.

[In3x]

Well caste is not quite class, as it is hereditary.

Yup, and it's illegal to discriminate people for immutable traits in the UK so surely discrimination of this kind is already illegal?

[mongrel]

Yup, and it's illegal to discriminate people for immutable traits in the UK so surely discrimination of this kind is already illegal?

It is not that easy. If an Indian national, sharing otherwise identical religious and cultural traits denies services on grounds of caste, the victim can't fit into a protected group as defined by legislation. In the workplace there are provisions for harassment and bullying, but such protection is not equivalent to that available under Equality laws.

[athanaric]

The most powerful deterrent for caste discrimination would be public awareness and action taken by the British media, i.e. calling the perpetrators out on it, and mocking them for being ass-backwards bigots. This works against neo-Nazis, so why not against other people with inhumane ideas and ideologies.

[mongrel]

The most powerful deterrent for caste discrimination would be public awareness and action taken by the British media, i.e. calling the perpetrators out on it, and mocking them for being ass-backwards bigots. This works against neo-Nazis, so why not against other people with inhumane ideas and ideologies.

I can agree with that.

[Copperknickers II]

Well caste is not quite class, as it is hereditary.

Not really. It is believed to be hereditary by some but it is not a sanctioned religious belief, it's just a South Asian traditional system for governance that sometimes happens to coincide with religious systems in both the scriptures and in practice.

'If an Indian national, sharing otherwise identical religious and cultural traits denies services on grounds of caste, the victim can't fit into a protected group as defined by legislation. In the workplace there are provisions for harassment and bullying, but such protection is not equivalent to that available under Equality laws.'

So every possible persecution based on a distinction made by one human being upon another should be processed under equality laws? I could just as easily refuse service to someone based on the fact that they have ginger hair, does that mean we should legislate against anti Gingerism? Because frankly that's probably a bigger problem.

[mongrel]

Not really. It is believed to be hereditary by some but it is not a sanctioned religious belief, it's just a South Asian traditional system for governance that sometimes happens to coincide with religious systems in both the scriptures and in practice.

'If an Indian national, sharing otherwise identical religious and cultural traits denies services on grounds of caste, the victim can't fit into a protected group as defined by legislation. In the workplace there are provisions for harassment and bullying, but such protection is not equivalent to that available under Equality laws.'

So every possible persecution based on a distinction made by one human being upon another should be processed under equality laws? I could just as easily refuse service to someone based on the fact that they have ginger hair, does that mean we should legislate against anti Gingerism? Because frankly that's probably a bigger problem.

I doubt if ginger people are denied jobs or services to the extent that I suspect victims of caste discrimination face. If you have any evidence to the contrary, let us have it.

[John Doe]

When the last (UK) government decided to review all Equality legislation, for some reason they left out the issue of caste discrimination. For the life of me I cannot find any obvious reason for this, particularly as they took the trouble to commission a report on the extent of the problem.

The last governement was labor, places with high % of immigrant from asia most likely to vote labor, you don't take the risk to upset your electorate. Also you may not want to give ammo to the BNP to use their demagoguery on how well immigrants assimilate or embrace british values.

[athanaric]

Also you may not want to give ammo to the BNP to use their demagoguery on how well immigrants assimilate or embrace british values.

On the contrary - the sooner the established parties deal with the actual problems at hand, instead of denying their existence, the less of a problem radical parties will pose. What's giving ammo to the BNP is actually the unsolved problems that arise from lazy politics on behalf of Labour et al. If the established parties for once actually worked on these issues, the BNP might attract a lot less "protest voters".

[John Doe]

On the contrary - the sooner the established parties deal with the actual problems at hand, instead of denying their existence, the less of a problem radical parties will pose. What's giving ammo to the BNP is actually the unsolved problems that arise from lazy politics on behalf of Labour et al. If the established parties for once actually worked on these issues, the BNP might attract a lot less "protest voters".

I totally agree with you, I was trying to answer Mongrel's doubts: doing nothing about the caste discrimination is another exemple of the ostrich politics of Labor.

[GreyFox]

Not really. It is believed to be hereditary by some but it is not a sanctioned religious belief, it's just a South Asian traditional system for governance that sometimes happens to coincide with religious systems in both the scriptures and in practice.

Exactly, it's part of their culture and has to be respected and loved. All the whiners here should stop trying to trample on other peoples' belief systems.

[mongrel]

Exactly, it's part of their culture and has to be respected and loved. All the whiners here should stop trying to trample on other peoples' belief systems.

Bollocks. It is plain bullying, not a belief system.

[Sharpe's Company]

Bollocks. It is plain bullying, not a belief system.

It's part of their culture, I know that is hard for pinko-liberals to understand, but come on, it might look bad to us but for them it's just normal.

I agree, we should wipe it out in the UK, but the Government don't the balls, only the BNP would have the balls to tackle this issue.

[athanaric]

It's part of their culture, I know that is hard for pinko-liberals to understand, but come on, it might look bad to us but for them it's just normal.

That is not an excuse fir its existence. Every culture has its bad parts that should be overcome.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's part of their culture

It's illegal in India.

[mongrel]

It's part of their culture, I know that is hard for pinko-liberals to understand, but come on, it might look bad to us but for them it's just normal.

I agree, we should wipe it out in the UK, but the Government don't the balls, only the BNP would have the balls to tackle this issue.

The BNP, or self-evident reasons, lacks credibility when it comes to equality issues.