SELJUK CRECSENT FORMATION???

**oss1215** · June 24, 2011, 09:12 AM

i have heard of this formation and it was one of the reasons that helped turks win at manzikert . but what is it ?and how effective is it????

**Cheator** · June 24, 2011, 09:22 AM

I'd imagine something similiar to what Hannibal did to the romans

**PrestigeX** · June 24, 2011, 09:30 AM

Not sure if anywhere in the Game(s) (including major mods) where there's a specific Crescent formation.

But deploying an army in a large crescent shape, is probably what's implied. Thickest in the middle sections, but still extends far on each side - hoping to go all the way around the enemy line. And if it's Turks with the Horse Archers - very mobile

**Silverheart** · June 24, 2011, 11:32 AM

I understood it as such, that the Turks won at Manzikert by attacking the Byzantines with Hit-and-Run attacks during the day, and staying out of melee until the Byzantines tried to retreat back to their camp for the night. Then they charged in full force and broke the Byzantines.

But I don´t consider this stone-carved knowledge, it´s just what I´ve heard.
And the Crescent formation should logically be something along the lines of placing your troops in the shape of a new moon, with the most tempting troops in the middle (the AI often focuses on your general), so as to force the enemy to move in a way that makes it as easy as possible for your archers to kill´em.

**FightInTheShade** · June 28, 2011, 01:27 AM

Here is a drawing I just whipped up of the Crescent formation used by the Seljuk. Apologies for the crappy paint work. There probably should be more units for the Seljuk but I just wanted to show an example.

Notice the flanks of the red army are under arrow assault by Cavalry Archers. The center of the crescent continually moves backward and the "wings" of the crescent move forward. When the Byzantines flank tried to break off and engage the "wings" the Cavalry Archers fled. (Hit & Run)

Emperor Romanos IV called for a withdraw and ordered his right flank to cover their retreat. Miscommunication led to everyone withdrawing at the same time and the Seljuk took advantage. They almost immediately routed the right flank. The left flank held out a little longer but was routed as well. Which led to the encirclement of the Emperor and his Vanguard.

**Silverheart** · June 28, 2011, 10:56 AM

Oh yeah, I remember reading that the Byzantine emperor and his Varangian bodyguards were the last ones standing in the battle of Manzikert.
I took it with a grain of salt, but I feel more inclined to believing it now.

**diez** · June 28, 2011, 03:34 PM

in the crusades factions intro,they turks have formed a cresent like formation

**Aeratus** · June 28, 2011, 07:57 PM

Here's a better example of the crescent formation, which occurs at around 0:34 of the video. Actually, I believe the Turks intro is ripped off from this scene.

**thespaniard** · June 28, 2011, 10:36 PM

ah yes kingdom of heaven easily my favorite medievaly movie combines crusaders fighting the few against the many and idiots who think they are BA

**Aeratus** · June 29, 2011, 12:22 AM

I wish Feudal Knights and Ghulams in M2TW would keep fighting on foot once unhorsed, as they do in that video.

**The Noble Lord** · June 29, 2011, 10:59 AM

I had vaguely similar formation done by the Seljuks in some of my games, but it wasn't proper Crescent formation, only the shape was going in that direction for a brief moment!

**~~PlPs~~** · June 29, 2011, 11:36 AM

its ancient Turkish battle tactic Turks calling as "Turan(comes from Turania) taktiği" or "Hilal(meaning crescent) taktiği" most of ancient Turkish empires used this tactic. Göktürks, Seljuks, Ottomans etc.

firstly central power close to enemy and horse archers & light cavalries move to wings then central power fall back and enemy pursue them then horse archers and other light cavalries close the enemy forces and hit and run to enemy then central power turn back and fight so enemy is totally destroyed.

**The Noble Lord** · July 02, 2011, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Byzantine Knight

its ancient Turkish battle tactic Turks calling as "Turan(comes from Turania) taktiği" or "Hilal(meaning crescent) taktiği" most of ancient Turkish empires used this tactic. Göktürks, Seljuks, Ottomans etc.

firstly central power close to enemy and horse archers & light cavalries move to wings then central power fall back and enemy pursue them then horse archers and other light cavalries close the enemy forces and hit and run to enemy then central power turn back and fight so enemy is totally destroyed.

Yes, it was used widely by the several Turkic armies over the different centuries. But at the Battle of Ankara in 1402, the Ottomans were unable to perform the Crescent formation, it was actually the head-on heavy cavalry charge of the Serbian ally that almost defeated the Amir Timur and his army.

**Double A** · July 02, 2011, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by TheHarazzer

It is at Kerak,not Krak des Chavaliers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers

Bah!

Originally Posted by The Noble Lord

Yes, it was used widely by the several Turkic armies over the different centuries. But at the Battle of Ankara in 1402, the Ottomans were unable to perform the Crescent formation, it was actually the head-on heavy cavalry charge of the Serbian ally that almost defeated the Amir Timur and his army.

How were they unable to do a formation?

**~~PlPs~~** · July 08, 2011, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by The Noble Lord

Yes, it was used widely by the several Turkic armies over the different centuries. But at the Battle of Ankara in 1402, the Ottomans were unable to perform the Crescent formation, it was actually the head-on heavy cavalry charge of the Serbian ally that almost defeated the Amir Timur and his army.

becasue there were a lot of traitors to Ottoman army. Kara-Tartars were back of Ottoman army and Tartars and some of Turks joined Timurids then Ottomans stuck. btw Serbians were great warriors at battle of Ankara, as most of old Turkish history book says

**Double A** · July 01, 2011, 02:49 AM

I thought of Kingdom of Heaven too. I recall a part where Muslims were attacking the Christians at Krak-de-Chevaliers, and they had a several thousand melee cavalry in a crescent formation charging less than 1000 crusaders.

Of course, doing it with horse archers makes a lot more sense. I usually do that when using a full HA army, except I have more of an L formation, and my general is on the wing so he can attack their archers and artillery with some HAs if he gets a chance.

**TheHarazzer** · July 01, 2011, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Double A

I thought of Kingdom of Heaven too. I recall a part where Muslims were attacking the Christians at Krak-de-Chevaliers, and they had a several thousand melee cavalry in a crescent formation charging less than 1000 crusaders.

Of course, doing it with horse archers makes a lot more sense. I usually do that when using a full HA army, except I have more of an L formation, and my general is on the wing so he can attack their archers and artillery with some HAs if he gets a chance.

It is at Kerak,not Krak des Chavaliers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers