Missile Cavalry

**darkranger85** · June 23, 2011, 07:19 PM

Hey all,

I've been playing SS for a few days and one thing I am having a problem with is the fact that I can't for the life of me figure out how to use missile cavalry to any sort of effect.

I brought up 3 units of mounted archers and before I even got a shot off about a third of my cavalry was already laying dead on the field.

They tear up lone units, but if any missile attacks come within 20 miles of them they just fall dead where they stand.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks guys!

**MaDmAn_1988** · June 23, 2011, 07:28 PM

I only use them to circle around back and pull away and keep enemy heavy cav occupied, but before i do this I make sure my archers are keeping thereown archers busy as i agree that the get hamered by missle attack but this makes sense because they are nearly impossible to kill if used properly otherwise so i think its fair.

My own counter against enemy HA is to use archers, and pepper them.

**muller227** · June 23, 2011, 11:31 PM

Most of the missile cavalry, especially early only have a range of 70 in the EDU, some of the elite HA later have much longer ranges nearly 200 in some cases. Check the unit card if it does not say long range then be very careful with them. Really good missile Cavalry, are Mongol Korchi, a Cuman unit I cannot pronounce let alone spell, Fari and Mamluk archers. Those damn Mourtatoi early on are devastating against HA. But even archer militias tend to cause problems.

**k/t** · June 23, 2011, 11:37 PM

Bekh Druzhina. Hungarian Nobles are also good.

The lower range doesn't mean the unit sucks. It means it's Skirmisher-type. These units have lower range but higher accuracy. They don't shoot as fast as Missile-type units, but that means their ammo will last much longer. Such units include Yasi, Cuman Militia, Pechenegs, Turkish somethings, Turkomans, and Magyar Cavalry.

Missile mounted units are usually Feudal or Professional, whereas Skirmishers are usually Local.

**muller227** · June 23, 2011, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by k/t

Bekh Druzhina. Hungarian Nobles are also good.

The lower range doesn't mean the unit sucks. It means it's Skirmisher-type. These units have lower range but higher accuracy. They don't shoot as fast as Missile-type units, but that means their ammo will last much longer. Such units include Yasi, Cuman Militia, Pechenegs, Turkish somethings, Turkomans, and Magyar Cavalry.

Missile mounted units are usually Feudal or Professional, whereas Skirmishers are usually Local.

The shorter range makes them much more interesting to run actually, terrain really matters, as well as who they pick to attack. They are good against heavy cavalry for instance, They lack the punch of the javelin units, but can escape much more easily with that edge in range from the counter charges. Against the Mongols though with their masses of Hoshiga I would concentrate on different style units

**Head of the Heavy Chargers** · June 24, 2011, 02:43 AM

Use loose formation and keep ur unit in a thin line to avoid casualties from arrows.
Assault enemy flanks since enemy archers are less likely to have enough range to attack u. Enemy heavy cav is on the flanks too and they are primary targets.

Horse archers are weak in every way so keep them out of harm and out of range of enemy archers and U'll do fine.

**Logios** · June 24, 2011, 03:08 AM

I play Lithuania, and use Lithuanian cavalry as maybe my most valuable unit. I place them far out on the flanks and send them to either sorround the enemy and snipe at their general or to target the enemy HA. When the enemy flees they are perfect for taking lots of prisoners.

**ziserman** · June 24, 2011, 05:25 AM

Ok, here's how I use HA (and I tend to use a lot)

Often I deploy my HA far ahead of my main force to give them time to harass, and I differentiate my formation.
If I'm facing lots of foot archers I charge them fast with light cavalry or my own HA to reduce their numbers, and I try to position my HA in the wings, where the AI is less likely to send its archers.
If I'm facing heavy cavalry, I definitely put my HA to the wings to reduce their numbers and possibly make them chase me so I can surround them with better units (heavy cav of my own or cav in general supported by infantry works best here)
If I'm facing too little light cavalry I even engage them in melee. This is mostly 3 v 1 after the enemy light cavalry is separated from the main formation chasing me, or by bringing along some regular cavalry, heavy cavalry with stamina that runs fast works best here (such as knights).
If I'm facing too many foot archers (number of units being equal or greater than my HA) or too much light cavalry then I just avoid using HA to anything more than cannon fodder in loose formation for archers or in tight formation to absorb the charge instead of my better infantry.

Keep in mind I always suffer casualties in HA, but then HA are easily replaceable in these areas and they keep my main army from suffering casualties. I also pause a lot.

**Ichon** · June 24, 2011, 11:12 AM

AI rarely has massive amounts of foot archers protected by good infantry so either you'll face imbalance in favor of archers where your cavalry can easily crush the majority of the archers or imbalance of archers in favor of infantry where your HA can move from one flank to the other as the AI usually sends all its archers as a group to 1 flank or the other. Sometimes you can draw those archers too far out from the flank and eliminate them with a cavalry charge.

The only AI armies which are a problem for HA armies are ones with 6 archers, 6 good infantry, 8 cavalry... the AI has enough of everything that HA alone will have difficulty defeating. You can do it but takes a long battle and usually HA use 100% of their arrows and are reduced to charging the final enemies at the end of the battle.

Also if you play battles without time limit and the AI has a good position on a hill with some archers sending HA to try and fire up the hill versus archers of any type is nearly suicidal. Occasionally if you get wide flank you can find a spot from behind where the AI archers are just barely out of range if they don't have long range archers and when AI moves them back to engage you can march your infantry up the hill without suffering arrow barrage but the HA alone won't win that type of battle. Fortunately though if you have only very few HA the AI rarely stays on top of the hill and will move down to chase.

**darkranger85** · June 24, 2011, 12:18 PM

Well what happened on one of mine was this.

A large Lithuanian army was coming into my territory so I engaged them on a bridge. They outnumbered me so they came across after me.

All I had was 3 units of archer calvalry (without long range missiles) and I was hoping that I could rain a little bit of death down on them and then retreat. Basically a Hit and Fade tactic to thin them out.

But as they marched across the bridge their missile units opened up on me and started killing my guys by the dozens.

So far I have tried them in several different battles. Offensive, defensive, defensive siege, etc. . And in every single battle they amount to just about nothing. And I've never been able to keep them away from enemy archers cause it seems like the enemy, for me anyway, has been keeping the archers right with his other units, not too mention that almost every enemy somehow seems to have at least 1 or 2 missile cavalry of his own and they normally end up cutting me down.

I mean, I suppose it's possible that I'm trying too hard to use them as a primary tactic and I should focus on engaging their other units first. But I've read missile cavalry guides that talked about using them practically by themselves and causing a lot of grief for the enemy.

**Ichon** · June 24, 2011, 01:33 PM

Yes- HA should be devastating in most battles. There are a few situation they aren't good at handling though I doubt you've just had poor luck in encountering only those situations.

First of all do you have long range or short range HA? That makes a big difference. If short range HA vs long range foot archers it can be tough as getting in and out of range can give the foot archers 2-3 volleys. Typically its best to charge the enemy army with some HC hitting the enemy foot archers and then retreating. Alternatively you could put some infantry in loose formation first and move them just out of range of the enemy archers. Often the AI will move its archers up to target them and give you room for a cavalry charge.

HA vs HA is usually won by 1- elevation 2- shooting first 3- more arrows (either by greater numbers or splitting enemy HA into more than 1 group)

Also you can try feint charge where your main body of infantry charges forward and the enemy sends its line forward- HA and cavalry on the flanks can then charge in and hit the enemy archers from behind while your infantry turn around and run away. Then with enemy archers gone your HA can treat apart enemy infantry as it chases your infantry.

**darkranger85** · June 25, 2011, 01:51 PM

I think I will give that a try. Thanks for the advice :-)

**ziserman** · June 26, 2011, 09:27 AM

Ok, when I face archers I either have to charge them fast (i.e. before they get more than 1 volley off on me) or put my guys in loose formation and hope they get killed instead of my better units.

What you did was engage in ranged combat with 3 units of HA against what I guess was more than 3 units of regular archers(!!!). In order to win a ranged battle like this you have to have either long range (and the enemy archers must be short-ranged) or you must greatly outnumber them (I think 3 HA per 1 enemy archer unit is ok).

By the by, elevation is a must in any kind of archer combat.
Bridges usually don't have elevation, but they allow you to shoot where the enemy can't fire back. You still need more units than 3 HA to actually damage a full or 3/4 stack army.