The Pope declared war on me.

**mabinight** · June 23, 2011, 01:12 PM

I-is this normal? I was playing all nice and peacefully as Genoa, and only attacked a few rebel settlements. One day Sicily (allied to the Pope) attacks me. The next turn the Pope brings a full stack army and takes one of my cities.

All of a sudden, I'm free game for all Catholic factions, I'm excommunicated, and my crusading army which just reached its destination is totally disbanded (leaving my faction leader stranded all alone in a distant foreign land). All without me having done anything bad to any factions?

**Lord Dakier** · June 23, 2011, 05:17 PM

Game over goodbye.

Although this has the makings to an epic story.

Come thou forth and return great leader. Show thou enemies of Genoa your blade.

**Erunion Telcontar** · June 23, 2011, 05:55 PM

Yes, this is normal. Yes, you are in a very bad situation. This, however, has the makings of an epic campaign if you rise above your circumstances!

**mabinight** · June 23, 2011, 07:46 PM

Haha, I always pictured the Pope as someone more pacifist. I thought even if he's allied to someone at war, he just kinda sits around in his own territory...not attack other Catholics. Time to wage war~

**Asterix** · June 23, 2011, 08:03 PM

remember that the papal states acts like any other faction normally. if it goes to war with a catholic faction, it acts like a catholic faction. it takes cities and builds armies. it obviously will not declare war on a faction unless it's been excommed, but if it is, it will attack. the papacy tends not to dominate the map like other factions late game, but expect him to be annoyingly powerful in north italy. Suck it up and pray. To Allah, i guess, now.

**Losthief** · June 23, 2011, 08:08 PM

yep normal...actually just happened...i have lots of picks to post about it sometime...but my story was silicy (bgrIV-E, vh/vh, early, some other minor stuff cosmetic mostly), allied with france, pope, byz's from turn 3 onwards with multiple marriages with france and byz's. So, byz's as they always do to silicy came poking around and we eventually got it on, i stole there 3rd in line to throne with princess in thessoloncia and took the city no fight and took cornith, they turned me back at athens then the bulgaria rebellion came and i was like ready to pounce. But....fatmids attacked my tripoli/north africa holdings and i was arming up for there. Then genoa, back stabbed me and attacked an undefended tunis (one unit) and took that another city up there next to it, Al-ben or whatever. Well this prompted me who had 10/10 favor to lose botht he pope and france, so suddenly I was allyless. So, I retreated from greece, made peace with the romans, and reknewed our alliance then went to take back tunis etc. Well this must of pissed the pope off cause once I took tunis they attacked me at ancona and naples and although my emergency army saved me with two heroic battles (it was headed towards pisa (genoa owned)). I was suddenly excommunicated and hated by the pope. Well, as it stands now I have pushed genoa all the way out of genoa itself (they are left with marsielle, palma, and toulouse (lost corsica, al-ben whatever, tunis, pisa, and genoa to me) and I have taken roma from the pope the bastard and my king has loathes the papacy (+3 command pic attached, loved the heretical comment about the papacy) and my highest piety general has 3 piety lol. I have been excommunicated for 50+ of the last 60 years and I have just had a crusade called against me at rome, and have just pushed the fatmids out of tripoli finally!. So all the catholic world is headed at me currently...I've totally embraced the evil role and work only to be friends with the romans and am assassinating left and right crusade generals. But, by far one of my favorite games, my old king was such a hoss, he was alcholic (-3 command), beyond battle (-2? command), senile (-3 command) and something else and still has 4/5 stars base without +from likes dark and hates genoa/pope. And he reached 84.

**Ichon** · June 24, 2011, 01:27 AM

Why I love Genoa so much! Get the Pope angry at you... sometimes enough that HRE and the Pope ally. Venice and France will backstab first opportunity while Sicily will always attack any islands you have. So many campaigns descend into war with the Papal States.

Which is actually historical. Several warmonger Popes tried to expand Papal State territories. In history usually the opposite happens as occurs in game- the other Italians usually united against Pope and each side called in foreign powers like France and HRE, then eventually Aragon and Swiss but to fight on opposite sides- not united.

Just beware the Pope if he gets more than 2 cities. Can build a nightmare army filled with Swiss Guards that never retreat and are equal to the strongest melee infantry. Best is to keep the Pope confined by either eliminating other Italian powers or making any war against him swift- then returning Rome to get back into his good graces- minus a few buildings like barracks. Should give you another 30 turns without much complications from the Pope.

**recentiy03** · June 24, 2011, 09:01 AM

The same thing happened to my mighty Kingdom of Genoa, but I was able to survive losing all of my Tuscan holdings with a mass migration to Iberia, where we displaced the Moors and Aragoneans. I wasn't able to hold Genoa and the Pope went as far as Marseille, so he is now very rich. That said, so am I and I burned out on that campaign before trying to recapture my former capital.

**mabinight** · June 25, 2011, 12:40 PM

Well, after a chain of heroic victories on a very tight budget, I managed to kill the pope and a few of his successors, and take all of his lands. Now the pope has to live outside of Rome in a cardboard box! Justice served, for him attacking me with no reason and causing me to get auto-excommunicated.

My poor faction leader whose entire crusading army abandoned him on the other side of the world, managed to survive by hiring a tiny mercenary army and taking that cute island held by the Byzantines nearest to Jerusalem. At least he has a home again~

My question now is, is there anything bad about keeping Rome? As in, can I keep that region yet be at peace/good terms with Pope/not excommunicated?

**Ottheinrich** · June 25, 2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by mabinight

My question now is, is there anything bad about keeping Rome? As in, can I keep that region yet be at peace/good terms with Pope/not excommunicated?

Possible. Even better if you give the Papacy a new home by offering a remote province far away from the heart of your empire (Cyprus e.g.

) as a gift.

**k/t** · June 25, 2011, 12:42 PM

Take some Egyptian territories and give them to the Pope. He'll settle there and forget about you.

**Angrychris** · June 25, 2011, 12:42 PM

a crusade will be declared on you when the option is available. i destroyed rome in my byz campaign out of anger and let it rebel. by it rebelling it went automatically back to papal control. i would give rome to an ally or enemy so you wont be held holding the bag.

**k/t** · June 25, 2011, 12:46 PM

If you make peace with him, he might not call a crusade on you. I was the HRE and I gave some territories in the Middle East to the Pope, then, once he moved his capital, I traded yet another Middle Eastern settlement and a bunch of money for Rome too. I was always at peace with him, though.

**Henry X** · June 25, 2011, 10:14 PM

i always enjoyed fighting papal armies as the HRE

**SirPoliver** · June 26, 2011, 12:05 PM

Punk-ass Pope! The guy has a bad habit of excommunicating me and declaring war on me when I play as a catholic faction. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I usually fight a lot of my catholic brethren...