Isengard Tech Reworked Tech Tree proposal

[Bartolomeo XIII]

Hi, this is very basic form of new Isengard tech tree, that might be used in the forthcoming Third Age Total War 3.0. It is shaped specially for the new battle models that will affect ( i suppose) some tech trees. It would be good to have reworked tech tree for every faction, because in my opinion this is the weakest part of this really great mod. As I said it is an very basic stage, without bonuses, building times and so on and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have capital specific building at least for some faction (Isengard is a very good candidate in my opinion), this would certainly add to the game-play. In case of Isengard the buildings in the conquered settlements could be based on something like occupant structure, thus this faction would rely heavily on its capital city with all those unique buildings and units. Off course after some time and after develop Isengard structures in subdue settlements the player will have a chance of recruit factional troop elsewhere. So... constructive criticism and ideas appreciated

[Muffer Nl]

Looks nice. +1 on the general idea though I don't like the event requirements.

[Bartolomeo XIII]

Looks nice. +1 on the general idea though I don't like the event requirements.

Thanks, events could be linked with certain dates or player decisions and could be optional like some scripted events mods.

[Russian Gondor]

I never understood evil in TATW. In the book/movie Sauron needs no money... psh.... he just makes some holes in the ground and out pop tons of the best Uruk-Hai warriors you can find. And yet when I play the mod I always have little money and it takes tons of turns to get my Uruk-Hai working. Sauron started making his best troops only a little bit of time after his corruption and use of the Palantiri, while in the game you spend years using... Snagas?

[Ale_san]

I never understood evil in TATW. In the book/movie Sauron needs no money... psh.... he just makes some holes in the ground and out pop tons of the best Uruk-Hai warriors you can find. And yet when I play the mod I always have little money and it takes tons of turns to get my Uruk-Hai working. Sauron started making his best troops only a little bit of time after his corruption and use of the Palantiri, while in the game you spend years using... Snagas?

balance much?

[Bartolomeo XIII]

I never understood evil in TATW. In the book/movie Sauron needs no money... psh.... he just makes some holes in the ground and out pop tons of the best Uruk-Hai warriors you can find. And yet when I play the mod I always have little money and it takes tons of turns to get my Uruk-Hai working. Sauron started making his best troops only a little bit of time after his corruption and use of the Palantiri, while in the game you spend years using... Snagas?

Well, with carefully applied income and trade bonuses from mines and woodcutting etc maybe Isengard could be stronger economic wise.

[Muffer Nl]

I never understood evil in TATW. In the book/movie Sauron needs no money... psh.... he just makes some holes in the ground and out pop tons of the best Uruk-Hai warriors you can find. And yet when I play the mod I always have little money and it takes tons of turns to get my Uruk-Hai working. Sauron started making his best troops only a little bit of time after his corruption and use of the Palantiri, while in the game you spend years using... Snagas?

Yeah it only took him 60 years to set up Uruk Hai troops.

[Lemoniser]

Yeah it only took him 60 years to set up Uruk Hai troops.

In tatw you mean? AFAIK nothing like that was in the lore.

[Arǭmēz]

I think that Isengard should have more mine levels than other factions (except the Dwarrows), and if no Dunland faction exists more xildmen available for recruitment...

[Bloodly]

...All this and you still have Warg Riders requiring Rank 2 Stables, which is foul given how bad they are for the investment required and the fact the other evil factions that use them get them from Rank 1 at a similar strength?

I am not impressed.

[Lemoniser]

...All this and you still have Warg Riders requiring Rank 2 Stables, which is foul given how bad they are for the investment required and the fact the other evil factions that use them get them from Rank 1 at a similar strength?

I am not impressed.

Good point and I'd like to see some half decent dunlending units. I know that theres the hands of orthanc but they just dont seem very dunlending to me, what about some really bad defensively beserker unit? Maybe same attack stats as uruk one but with tonnes less defence and maybe morale.

[Noobio]

dunlending clubbers and please no "dunland nobles" or since they too,did have some sort of "ruling class" make em a bit wretched..

at least i ,always ,imagined them as mostly scum
maybe some really cheap but large peasant units..you know the ones with the farming tools..to use as cheap massive meat shields

[el Cid]

I really like your idea, nice job.
I do however dislike certain events, and I would also dislike a hatchery. That is not right according to lore. Orcs and Uruks reproduced just like men/elves/dwarves.

[Bloodly]

I only recall a dateIAnd I think it was vague, too) being given ONCE in all the stuff I've seen of LOTR: in the Tolkien Enterprises-approved RTS War of the Ring, which features the initial birthing as a mission in the Evil campaign.

And though the game is 'official' in that it's approved by the estate and all, it's not something one might use as a reference, especially given how they were formed in the mission in question; combined Orcs with evil spirits. Also, they're heavy archers with arrows with enough force to throw a man to the ground and keep them there. Eh...

[Muffer Nl]

Hmm seems I mixed up some dates. According to the Thain's Book Saruman started cross breeding around 2990 and was enslaved by Sauron around 3000.

2953
The White Council meets for the last time. Saruman lies to the Council, saying he has learned that the Ring was washed down the Anduin to the Sea. He fortifies Isengard and begins to spy on Gandalf and sends agents to Bree and the Shire.

2990
Saruman may have begun cross-breeding Orcs and Men around this time.

c. 3000
Saruman uses the palantir of Orthanc and is ensnared by Sauron and becomes a traitor to the Council. Saruman learns from his spies that the Rangers are guarding the Shire.

3001
The Rangers double their guard on the Shire.

3014
King Theoden of Rohan begins to fall under the influence of Saruman through his agent Grima Wormtongue.

3018
July 10: Saruman imprisons Gandalf in Isengard.

Though it is quite sure that he started planning evil things from 2953 when he lied to the council and started to fortify Isengard.

[Russian Gondor]

Hmm seems I mixed up some dates. According to the Thain's Book Saruman started cross breeding around 2990 and was enslaved by Sauron around 3000.



Though it is quite sure that he started planning evil things from 2953 when he lied to the council and started to fortify Isengard.

But he did not go to war yet.

[tjd123]

2990
Saruman may have begun cross-breeding Orcs and Men around this time.

That's gross. I never knew that before.

[Withwnar]

Nice one Bartolomeo. +rep

It would be good to have reworked tech tree for every faction, because in my opinion this is the weakest part of this really great mod.

I wholeheartedly agree. Over time hopefully this will happen, and yours is a foot in the right direction. Feet.

I really like the idea of one settlement being the centre of factionwide development. Isengard is a classic case. Maybe for other factions it would go beyond one settlement; key settlements providing unique benefits.

At the moment TATW is a bit 'lacking' here but it is still young. And the potential is great.

I like the idea that you can't recruit crossbow units until you research crossbows (for example). Date-based events are one way to do it. Personally I would prefer to be a bit more involved in the process, through special buildings, actions, etc. A bit ambitious I suppose but I really enjoy building things - and planning the building of things - when it's towards something big, as opposed to 'just another unit'.

[bazziman]

Nice work, both from a Lore, imersion and playability perspective this looks good...

Regarding Saruman: it always seemed to me that he started out 'selfish' rather than pure evil. At first maybe he wanted to defeat evil himself (using the ring) and establish a world order with him (and possibly what other magic wielders) at the top. At a later stage he loses faith in the good guys, comes under the direct influence of Sauron yet still vies for a position *besides* Sauron rather than subservient to Sauron. This becomes clear from his conversation with Gandalf on the matter.

[Princeps]

I don't like the event requirements.

I like them a lot. They add depth to the game.