Geert Wilders Cleared of All Charges

[Simon Cashmere]

Gert Wilders has been cleared of all charges. I don't know enough about Dutch justice to know whether the Prosecution can appeal an acquittal, but if they can, or be forced to appeal as they were forced to bring the charges.

It's a sort of 'phyric victory' though for Wilders. He wins, but, many other people, other than Wilders, have probably been scared into silence by the fact that the coercive arm of the state was used in an attempt to silence what he had to say, in the most outrageous fashion. So a lot of people with less guts than Wilders, might like to say something similar, but are too afraid too.

It also costs an arm and a leg to pay legal fees, which Wilders would have had to pay for.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Dutch court has acquitted rightwing politician Geert Wilders of hate charges, saying his anti-Islam statements, while offensive to many Muslims, fell within the bounds of legitimate political debate.


Judge Marcel van Oosten said Wilders' claims that Islam is violent by nature, and his calls for a ban on Muslim immigration and the Qur'an, must be viewed in a wider context of debate over immigration policy.


The judge added that the remarks could not be directly linked to increased discrimination against Dutch Muslims.


Wilders unmoved as the verdict was read, but his supporters in the public gallery hugged one another and clapped after the acquittal.


Wilders, one of the most powerful and popular politicians in the Netherlands, was accused of inciting hatred and discrimination against Muslims through numerous public statements, and with insulting them by comparing Islam with Naziism.


"I'm incredibly happy with this acquittal on all counts," Wilders said outside the courtroom. "It's not only an acquittal for me, but a victory for freedom of expression in the Netherlands.


"Fortunately you're allowed to discuss Islam in public debate and you're not muzzled in public debate. An enormous burden has fallen from my shoulders."


The court found that Wilders' rhetoric was "on the edge of what is legally permissible" but not illegal.

The judge described statements about a "tsunami" of immigrants as "crude and denigrating," but legally legitimate given wider context and his acknowledgment that those who integrate are acceptable and do not call for violence.


In speeches, written articles and a short film that incited riots around the Muslim world, Wilders said Islam is an inherently violent religion, and he compared the Qur'an with "Mein Kampf", Hitler's tirade against Jews – an especially touchy image because of the large number of Dutch Jews handed over to the Nazis in the second world war.


Wilders argued that his statements represent the views of millions of Dutch voters, that they are protected by freedom of speech law, and that the court is biased against him, while the charges are politically motivated.


Even the prosecutors called for his acquittal, saying that his remarks may be offensive, but they are part of legitimate political debate. Despite their reluctance, the judges ruled last year that the case should be put to a judicial test and Wilders should be prosecuted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...red-anti-islam

[removeduser_487563287433]

Before we go too far off the deep end of conspiracy theory, it's worth pointing out that Simon's attempt to describe this as an oppressive state trying to censor somebody is completely wrong. The public prosecution, initially brought forward by the DA of Amsterdam, was originally dropped, but the courts upheld an appeal by the alleged victims against this decision. So... yeah... sorry, reality.

[Simon Cashmere]

Before we go too far off the deep end of conspiracy theory, it's worth pointing out that Simon's attempt to describe this as an oppressive state trying to censor somebody is completely wrong. The public prosecution, initially brought forward by the DA of Amsterdam, was originally dropped, but the courts upheld an appeal by the alleged victims against this decision. So... yeah... sorry, reality.

The reality was that the Prosecution service did not want to prosecute Wilders, but was ordered to, by the Dutch Court of Appeal, because a handful of lefties and Muslim talking heads launched proceedings in the Dutch Court of Appeal to compel the prosecution to continue with the charges. Forced to bring the prosecution, the Prosecution service did what it was ordered to.

One of the judges on the Court of Appeal, also decided it was a good idea to meet with one of Wilder's witnesses to discuss the case before the trial, in an astonishing piece of judicial interference.

I set it all out ad nauseum in another thread.

It's just part of the Litigation Jihad the left uses to silence any who critique it and the Islamic viewpoint. All dissenters must be silenced, using the full might of the state. Very Stalinesque.

The amusing part is that you should see what one of the Religion of Peace Imam's has had to say, that brought the complaint against Wilders! He certainly feels that these 'anti-hate speech' laws don't apply to him! But of course he is right.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The reality was that the Prosecution service did not want to prosecute Wilders, but was ordered to, by the Dutch Court of Appeal, because a handful of lefties

And again, before we jump too far off into conspiracy theory. A court upheld the appeal. You know, the independent judiciary thing? The western values you pretend to have a passing interest in?

[Principe Alessandro]

As expected the mountain has given birth to a mouse.

[boofhead]

Good.

I have no doubt the same fairness would not happen in my own country. He'd be jailed here and plastered all over the media as demon-spawn for years.

[Simon Cashmere]

Good.

I have no doubt the same fairness would not happen in my own country. He'd be jailed here and plastered all over the media as demon-spawn for years.

Mine too probably, that is, Australia (where I am at the moment). If the leftie talking heads and muslim apologists brought some sort of discrimination hate thing against u, you'd be tarred and feathered for merely repeating what muslims say themselves about Islam. Why, from quoting from War and Peace in the Law of Islam - you'd be tarred and feathered.

There is no freedom of speech law here.

[Yoda Twin]

Mine too probably, that is, Australia (where I am at the moment). If the leftie talking heads and muslim apologists brought some sort of discrimination hate thing against u, you'd be tarred and feathered for merely repeating what muslims say themselves about Islam. Why, from quoting from War and Peace in the Law of Islam - you'd be tarred and feathered.

There is no freedom of speech law here.

Name a case in the last 10 years at High Court level over the abuse of freedom of speech

[SPECTREtm]

Good.

I have no doubt the same fairness would not happen in my own country. He'd be jailed here and plastered all over the media as demon-spawn for years.

In either case this is a massive defeat for Islamism in Europe - Rejoice!

[Dr. Croccer]

The reality was that the Prosecution service did not want to prosecute Wilders, but was ordered to, by the Dutch Court of Appeal, because a handful of lefties and Muslim talking heads launched proceedings in the Dutch Court of Appeal to compel the prosecution to continue with the charges. Forced to bring the prosecution, the Prosecution service did what it was ordered to.

No, the trial was sepoted, or nolle pros'd, and was later re-opened after the Court of Appeal considered it after a complaint, which is in exact accordance with Dutch law.

I don't agree with the trial, but pretending that it's part of the Islamo-Bolshevist conspiracy is completely retarded.

It's just part of the Litigation Jihad the left uses to silence any who critique it and the Islamic viewpoint. All dissenters must be silenced, using the full might of the state. Very Stalinesque.

Simon, if you're going to copy old Far Right, at least use the proper terminology and call it ''Islamo-Bolshevism''.

Of course, this isn't a ''phyrric victory'' for Wilders, this is ''a victory''. Like I said before, the trial was a win-win situation for him. Regardless of what happens he gets public sympathy. Again, I love Simon's out of touch comments about poor old Wilders. The reality is that a lot of Wilders' popularity comes from things like this, where he can portray himself as a martyr of freedom of speech. Really, a trial like this is a jackpot for him, especially after his recently stagnant popularity.

[Manco]

So despite the proper course of justice being followed, Simon still somehow manages to make it out as if Wilders was a poor victim? Especially weird considering this trials was a godsend for him and everyone with an ounce of brainmatter knew he'd be acquitted or charges would be dropped.

[Simon Cashmere]

So despite the proper course of justice being followed, Simon still somehow manages to make it out as if Wilders was a poor victim? Especially weird considering this trials was a godsend for him and everyone with an ounce of brainmatter knew he'd be acquitted or charges would be dropped.

He was a victim, as he had to spend 100s of 1000s in legal fees for a political witch-hunt, in a prosecution that should never have been brought, indeed even the Prosecution service, through it should never have been brought. The selective enforcement of the law is transparent too - if 'hate speech' was a crime they'd be stacking imams 50 deep in the Courts in the Netherlands, but only Wilders faced the dock.

He also had to have the threat of jail time and his career in politics being over hanging over his head for a significant period of time. That's not easy.

[Armenum]

Well this is good news, and finally this masquerade of a trial came to an end. I don't believe there was a wide conspiracy at play here, rather political sensitivity going overboard.

[Tiberios]

Yeah I largely agree. Still, it was good for Wilders as either way, he would gather sympathy.

[Armenum]

Yeah I largely agree. Still, it was good for Wilders as either way, he would gather sympathy.

Sympathy and importantly he got a good deal of press coverage/publicity from these events.

[Tiberios]

Sympathy and importantly he got a good deal of press coverage/publicity from these events.

Indeed.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well, no, it should of been brought because a judge decided it should. You know... western values again?

[Simon Cashmere]

Well, no, it should of been brought because a judge decided it should. You know... western values again?

What 'Western value' is a judge ordered prosecution? What Western value has the same judge on the Court of Appeal take the Defendant's witness out for dinner and try to talk to him about the cass to convince him that this trial was justified? Those 'Western values' - judicial interference and corruption?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...rial-collapses

What Western value says a group of leftie talking heads and Muslims get to petition the Court to compel the Prosecutor to charge someone? Why would a Court of Appeal then go onto rip into the defendant and make prejudged remarks about the case that only demonstrate bias? Another judge on the trial made adverse comments about Wilders utilising the *right* to remain silent.

And if Wilders had been convicted, and he well could have been - you would be on here crowing about how justice had been done. But the whole thing was a farce.

[Visna]

The whole case is a pity for rational debate and intelligent, respectful discourse, but since Wilders doesn't care about those, I guess it's good for him. If Fitna for example had been about Jews, Wilders would have been reviled, called anti-Semite, rolled in tar, dipped in feathers and driven out of town by the very same people who now see him as a Champion of Free Speech, a Staunch Defender of Western Values. And I suspect many of the people who pressed charges in the first place would nod in approval of the film's message.

*sigh*

[PointOfViewGun]

The whole case is a pity for rational debate and intelligent, respectful discourse, but since Wilders doesn't care about those, I guess it's good for him. If Fitna for example had been about Jews, Wilders would have been reviled, called anti-Semite, rolled in tar, dipped in feathers and driven out of town by the very same people who now see him as a Champion of Free Speech, a Staunch Defender of Western Values. And I suspect many of the people who pressed charges in the first place would nod in approval of the film's message.

*sigh*

And it would be Simon making a thread about it!