OT: Cersei Lannister bleh...(Spoilers)

[KamikazeFTW]

I want to know what you guys think of Cersei, especially her regency (I love Petyr's mention of stumblin from one disaster/idiocy to the next)

also, why is she such a bi... I mean, overproctective mother?

Especially wonder why she hates Tyrells soooo much

oh yeah, queen of Thorns is awesome

[Wothan]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've just read joffrey's death...and man I giggled, I call this karma! lol
Choked with pigeon, ha!
Call me creepy but it was a bit satisfactory to see Cersei despair after all the things she did

[Fulgrim88]

Well, there are several factors leading to her "bitchiness"

- First of all, she's Lord Tywins oldest child (only a few minutes older than Jaime, but still).
However, due to being a woman, she was never regarded as anything more than a possible marriage alliance. On several occasions she states how she longed to be a man (not sexually, just socially), for as a woman, all sorts of direct rule are closed to her.
While that's debatable (ask the Mormonts or the Lady of Thorns ), it's still been nagging on her for a looong time. It's the most likely source of her unhealthy hunger for power. She's completely desperate to prove that a woman can be just as good & strong a ruler as any man.
--> One factor leading to her hate for the Tyrells, because their alliance with the throne would reduce her to a mere mother & lady of court again
--> Also leading to her overprotectiveness, because she realizes that her only chance to rule is through her children (so she wants to rule out all outside influence).

Unrelated:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Basically every child of Tywin has some big father-child-complex going on, Cerseis being mentioned above, Tyrion yearning for love, Jaime yearning for freedom of choice. Pretty funny actually

The second big factor, is a prophecy *possible "Feast" spoilers*, made by a maegi in her youth, basically telling her that 1. another woman, more young and beautiful and 2. the "Valonqar" (someone close to her) will be her downfall.
She expects Maergary to be the first one
--> second factor leading to her hate for the Tyrells
and Tyrion (or at this point maybe even Jaime) to be the Valonquar
--> explaining her behaviour towards/fear of Tyrion, especially after his Outbreak and maybe to some extent her behaviour towards the "new" Jaime. And of course her overall paranoia

[Jaime Goldenhand]

Well, there are several factors leading to her "bitchiness"

- First of all, she's Lord Tywins oldest child (only a few minutes older than Jaime, but still).
However, due to being a woman, she was never regarded as anything more than a possible marriage alliance. On several occasions she states how she longed to be a man (not sexually, just socially), for as a woman, all sorts of direct rule are closed to her.
While that's debatable (ask the Mormonts or the Lady of Thorns ), it's still been nagging on her for a looong time. It's the most likely source of her unhealthy hunger for power. She's completely desperate to prove that a woman can be just as good & strong a ruler as any man.
--> One factor leading to her hate for the Tyrells, because their alliance with the throne would reduce her to a mere mother & lady of court again
--> Also leading to her overprotectiveness, because she realizes that her only chance to rule is through her children (so she wants to rule out all outside influence).

Unrelated:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Basically every child of Tywin has some big father-child-complex going on, Cerseis being mentioned above, Tyrion yearning for love, Jaime yearning for freedom of choice. Pretty funny actually

The second big factor, is a prophecy *possible "Feast" spoilers*, made by a maegi in her youth, basically telling her that 1. another woman, more young and beautiful and 2. the "Valonqar" (someone close to her) will be her downfall.
She expects Maergary to be the first one
--> second factor leading to her hate for the Tyrells
and Tyrion (or at this point maybe even Jaime) to be the Valonquar
--> explaining her behaviour towards/fear of Tyrion, especially after his Outbreak and maybe to some extent her behaviour towards the "new" Jaime. And of course her overall paranoia

I'm pretty sure Valonqar means younger brother in valyrian which is why she assumed it was Tyrion but a lot of people, me included, hope that its actually Jaime given that he is the younger twin and that he will finally break away from that evil once and for all.
While she did think that Margaery was the younger more beautiful queen in the prophecy which made her distrust the Tyrells I think it's Sansa given that she is, hopefully, about to marry into the Veil of Arryn and reclaim the North (until rickon/bran get back)

[Lordinquisitor]

Wothan, please spoiler your post better. Use the spoiler tag and mention for what book that`s a spoiler.

[Gurkhal]

I kind of like her and find her an interesting character. She is obviously not satisified with her role in a male-dominated society and tries to the play the men's game against them. Now she isn't very good at it, but still she tries.

AFFC I consider out-of-character for Cersei as she wasn't nearly as retarded before. She saw the virtue of keeping Eddard alive, for instance. Not saying she's a great ruler but she never struck me before as being so obviously stupied.

In regards to the Tyrell she hates them because they are trying to make themselves the power behind the throne. If she didn't see it and tried to do something about it she would be an utter fool. The problem is of course that she tries to do something about it in the wrong way. She should want the alliance to be kept, but keep the Lannisters as the dominating part of it. Not pissing the Tyrells off to the degree that the alliance is in danger of breaking.

[Fulgrim88]

AFFC I consider out-of-character for Cersei as she wasn't nearly as retarded before. She saw the virtue of keeping Eddard alive, for instance. Not saying she's a great ruler but she never struck me before as being so obviously stupied.

Kinda. I tried to explain it with the fact that things are really starting to go down the drain from her point of view, which does a lot to ignite the paranoia that was there to begin with. But overally, you're right. It seems rather extreme, compared to the earlier books.
I almost think that GRRM came up with that whole prophecy thing just so her change of personality would feel somewhat more believable. But then again, that's guesswork, and even if it's true, it would be a small and lonely stain on an overally great and believable characterisation

[KamikazeFTW]

throughout affc she doesnt listen to anybody, even her brother (new Jaime is pretty awesome though, too bad he sucks at fighting now)

even the good suggestions she dismissed without even thinking about them

Feast of crows spoiler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I find it funny that the High Septa is the one that is probably going to kill her,
How bad of a disaster do you think rearming the faith was?

[donions]

Good thread. She's definitely one of the driving forces in the realm. I dont have much to add that hasnt been brought up.

1 question tho, how old are the Lannister twins? Ive been skimming thru the books and searching on net, but cant find anything but guesses. I only ask because in the books she's made out to be an incredibly beautiful women that uses her beauty to seduce men into becoming her weapons. In the HBO series tho she seems...old. Maybe it's just a matter of taste but digging thru concept art that dates before the series, she appears much more "sexy".


I cant really blame Lancel for wanting that.

[Fulgrim88]

1 question tho, how old are the Lannister twins? Ive been skimming thru the books and searching on net, but cant find anything but guesses. I only ask because in the books she's made out to be an incredibly beautiful women that uses her beauty to seduce men into becoming her weapons. In the HBO series tho she seems...old. Maybe it's just a matter of taste but digging thru concept art that dates before the series, she appears much more "sexy".

I think she's 30-31. She was wed to Robert at age 16 and the marriage lasted some 14 years.
But in Medieval times, you were old at 30.
Martin isn't exaggerating with all his "child-heroes". From a modern perspective, you can add about 5-10 years to everyone to get an impression of their "social age". Childhood has grown a great deal longer in the past 100 years

As for the looks, while I, too, pictured her to be more sexy, I think HBO did the right thing to go for a more "realistically beautiful" approach

[Jaime Goldenhand]

Yea I don't like the casting and portrayal of Cersei in the series. She just doesn't seem sexy enough and doesn't seem to use her looks at all to influence people.

[Sanguinary Guardian]

Yea I don't like the casting and portrayal of Cersei in the series. She just doesn't seem sexy enough and doesn't seem to use her looks at all to influence people.

We haven't seen much of this in the series, but I think that in the Second season (based on ACOK) we'll see these things. Lena Headey is about as y as this role needs, can she be just as sexy?

[dannyalex]

for general info for Westeros go here http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_Page

[Gurkhal]

Kinda. I tried to explain it with the fact that things are really starting to go down the drain from her point of view, which does a lot to ignite the paranoia that was there to begin with. But overally, you're right. It seems rather extreme, compared to the earlier books.
I almost think that GRRM came up with that whole prophecy thing just so her change of personality would feel somewhat more believable. But then again, that's guesswork, and even if it's true, it would be a small and lonely stain on an overally great and believable characterisation

I think that you've hit the nail on this one and I agree. While it is of course guesswork it seems to me that you/we have a pretty good idea about it.

[History_Buff]

I think Cersei starts out as a very intelligent and crafty individual but becomes more and more paranoid and, what might say, crazy, as the series progresses. She shows to be a master of political intrigue in the first books and outmaneuvers many people. However, I believe her success went to her head and she becomes drunk with power. I also wonder what made her so paranoid.

[Khosrau]

I love Cersei, especially pre-AFFC. I've a soft spot for strong, independent, women in literature, games and the like. She's an amazing character who does a lot for the series.

While recently reading AFFC again my love for her took a bit of a hit though. Still a joy to read about, always very interesting.

[captainnemo55555]

And dont forget that in the last book Cersei definitely has a problem with the Hippocras...

[mookao165]

Shes hot...nough said

[John Mayer]

Reading her PoV's make me hate her even more. Jaime has become on of my favorites though.

[Jaime Goldenhand]

Jaime is awesome after he

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

loses his hand

He stops being an ass and starts trying to regain his honor.
And best of all he has finally (spoilered for language)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

stopped stickin his in crazy