US to pull 30,000 troops out of Afghanistan

[sutphin]

I'm rather surprised by this, but for some reason I never here information about this war. So, either we completed the goal of establishing a demoratic nation or we are cutting loses. Of course, there is the goal of driving out Al Qaeda which might have worked at least temporarliy.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/...html?hpt=hp_t1
This is the info from CNN.

Obama will make a speech today at eight and I will definitely watch it.

[kentuckybandit]

Obama has realized that he has succeeded in pissing off everyone, so he has to start bringing troops home or he wont even be able to count on his own party's votes, let alone independents or soul searching republicans. The friction from his own party has been mounting lately.

[SPECTREtm]

Obama has realized that he has succeeded in pissing off everyone, so he has to start bringing troops home or he wont even be able to count on his own party's votes, let alone independents or soul searching republicans. The friction from his own party has been mounting lately.

Or could it be that Obama is actually willing to try and do something about the massive internal problems your country has, and he knows that fighting in Afghanistan will not solve your domestic problems which are only getting worse year by year?...

Will other NATO members including Canada let their troops come home as well?

NATO =/= Warsaw Pact.

If Canada wants to do that, then the US won't be stopping them.

[kentuckybandit]

Or could it be that Obama is actually willing to try and do something about the massive internal problems your country has, and he knows that fighting in Afghanistan will not solve your domestic problems which are only getting worse year by year?...

It would be nice, but what internal domestic problems would he be solving by doing this?

[Babur]

Anyway I am sure that Drones will continue to be used despite this partial withdrawal.

[Armenum]

Anyway I am sure that Drones will continue to be used despite this partial withdrawal.

Drones and routines visits by the Navy Seals

[SPECTREtm]

It would be nice, but what internal domestic problems would he be solving by doing this?

Cutting down spendings (or use them otherwise) would be a nice start, and I think we all can agree that Afghanistan cost an aweful lot of money.

[Heathen Hammer]

NATO =/= Warsaw Pact.

If Canada wants to do that, then the US won't be stopping them.

That wasn't my question.

[kentuckybandit]

That wasn't my question.

I think that if the US starts making serious withdrawals it will make it more likely for other NATO nations to withdraw their troops as well.

[Vizsla]

That’s the problem isn’t it?
Now that the US is officially withdrawing so will everyone else, as soon as possible.
If a country decides to sod that for a game of soldiers and just piss off, what’s Obama going to do about it? They’ll only be doing what he’s already said he’s doing.
Sodding off is the right thing to do. Just keep some people around to bomb anyone who looks terroristic. We all know the problem is in Pakistan, Yemen and Sudan now. No point wasting money on trying to save Afghanis who don’t want to be saved.

[sutphin]

The 30,000 men and women are part of the surge and will be recalled by the end of 2012. So, there will still be 70,000 american troops in afghanistan without counting the NATO forces.

[kentuckybandit]

The 30,000 men and women are part of the surge and will be recalled by the end of 2012. So, there will still be 70,000 american troops in afghanistan without counting the NATO forces.

Yes but all that matters is that he will be able to say he brought 30,000 troops home.

[Tiberios]

Not sure this is a terribly good idea. If the Taliban is to agree to something in negotiations, the US and NATO needs to keep pressure up.

[Wilder]

Yes but all that matters is that he will be able to say he brought 30,000 troops home.

No, that is not all that matters, there is quite a bit more at stake here then political points, and while I can understand someone who is critical of Obama being somewhat fixated on the political fallout of any given situation, assuming that EVERYTHING he does is a ploy to get re-elected is unjustifiably cynical, not to mention an argument ad ignorantiam, unless you are specially privy to the man's thought process.

[kentuckybandit]

No, that is not all that matters, there is quite a bit more at stake here then political points, and while I can understand someone who is critical of Obama, being somewhat fixated on the political fallout of any given situation, assuming that EVERYTHING he does is a ploy to get re-elected is unjustifiably cynical, not to mention an argument ad ignorantiam, unless you are specially privy to the man's thought process.

?? Nice but by your logic we can't debate anything here since we don't know what goes on inside the mind of any politician. And anyone who thinks that 99% of what a president does (of either party) isn't calculated political moves, is rather naive.

Well if the Taliban get the idea that they can just stall negotiations until the last of NATO withdraws, then negotiations with them are pointless. If they are forced to realize that NATO isn't going anywhere, perhaps some are willing to negotiate.

This is what is worrying to me, since outside of South Korea (which really is a different situation), no military force can be 'there' forever, even less so if they are from Western nations. And the Taliban know this.

[Wilder]

?? Nice but by your logic we can't debate anything here since we don't know what goes on inside the mind of any politician. And anyone who thinks that 99% of what a president does (of either party) isn't calculated political moves, is rather naive.

Ye olde naivety vs cynicism debate...
Well, I certainly can't argue the point that politician have political motives, because that would be stupid, but I feel fairly confidant that 99% is an inflated figure. While we are out throwing around semi-arbritrary figures, I would say that a fairly principled politician is probably about 30%, and Obama being the capable politician that he is (and that is a sincere compliment btw), I would guess, oh, 40-50%, which is still fairly low for a national leader.


As to guessing at peoples' motives who we don't know (if not rendered supreemly ironic by that last paragraph), I stand by my position. One of my big complaints about political discution, on these board and elswhere, is that far to much of it hinges on unsubstatiated conjecture about what so and so group or person really want. As if it is just to damn hard to actually discuss the policies on their merits.

To tell a little parable about myself: I think global warming is real. This is a very frustrating position to hold, because most of the time when a skeptic approaches me on the subject, they spend all of two seconds on the actual science, before attacking the "real" motivations of scientists, the government, Al Gore, or even with surprising frequency, me. I've personally been accused of taking money from some inexplicable shadowy forces. This is all well and good, but it is apropos to nothing when considering the merits of global warming. I find this so maddeningly, vein popingly, aneurism prodducingly frustrating that I have long since adopted a policy of calling people out when their primary argument comes from speculation on what people "really" want.

[sutphin]

I'm not sure it matters what the Taliban agree to. It is kind of futile in my opinion.

[Tiberios]

I'm not sure it matters what the Taliban agree to. It is kind of futile in my opinion.

Well if the Taliban get the idea that they can just stall negotiations until the last of NATO withdraws, then negotiations with them are pointless. If they are forced to realize that NATO isn't going anywhere, perhaps some are willing to negotiate.

[Admiral Piett]

Well if the Taliban get the idea that they can just stall negotiations until the last of NATO withdraws, then negotiations with them are pointless. If they are forced to realize that NATO isn't going anywhere, perhaps some are willing to negotiate.

It is unlikely such a feat could be sustained. Not all of the Taliban are unified in their efforts. Some are willing to negotiate. The main issue is there needs to be a way to prevent the Pakistani military from aiding the Taliban in the event of a counteroffensive against ANA.

30,000 is a bit much. It should be in small, steady increments of 5,000 as Gates suggested.

[Tiberios]

It is unlikely such a feat could be sustained. Not all of the Taliban are unified in their efforts. Some are willing to negotiate. The main issue is there needs to be a way to prevent the Pakistani military from aiding the Taliban in the event of a counteroffensive against ANA.

I agree.

This is what is worrying to me, since outside of South Korea (which really is a different situation), no military force can be 'there' forever, even less so if they are from Western nations. And the Taliban know this.

Yeah that is a serious problem.