Gov. Fears too much exposure on Bin Laden raid may jeoporadize future ops

[Captain Jin]

Source.

“The pre-mission Operational Security was superb, but the post-mission OPSEC stinks,” he said. “When all the hullabaloo settles down, JSOC and [the SEALs] will have to get back to business as usual, keeping the troops operationally ready and getting set for the next mission; the visibility the administration has allowed to be focused on JSOC and [the SEALs] will make their job now more difficult.”
Guidry said that the “administration’s bragging” about details like the existence of the bin Laden courier network and efforts to eavesdrop on cell phones would encourage the enemy to adapt by changing their cell phones, e-mail addresses, web sites, safe houses, and couriers. He also thinks the administration should not have disclosed precisely what types of equipment it found in bin Laden’s compound, such as bin Laden’s use to thumb drives to communicate.

I'm really glad I'm not the only person that thought all of this absurd disclosure of what we found there and all the details behind the raid wasn't an idiotic move. Let's put the Special Operations in the limelight for what they did; despite the fact their ability to be effective is contingent upon remaining out of that limelight. Let's detail the general manner in which we were able to hone in on Bin Laden, the techniques used and so forth, so that those who are remaining can adjust their tactics accordingly. Let's go ahead and explain that we have scored a huge dump of high value intelligence that could lead to more kills/captures of other HVTs across the globe, enabling those people to immediately disappear off the radar or change their patterns entirely.

The result of professionals work being used as campaign fodder for a President looking ahead to 2012 is just saddening. Even more because so many people just gobbled it up like the sheep they are-- as if Obama conducted the surveillance and raid all by himself. It was a success for Obama; Obama got Osama, Obama authorized raid to take care of Osama, Obama 1 Osama 0, sorry I didn't get you that birth certificate I was too busy killing Osama and all the other bs that we heard afterwards. Except that he had absolutely all to do with the operation and instead his administration has treated it like a pack of little teenagers whom in confidence you told you managed to lose your virginity to your biggest crush, but fearing that word would get out and embarrass her you swore them to secrecy. Nevertheless they have passed the word to any and all the people that will hear it, claiming they helped you get laid, taught you the right moves, explained to you the finer points of chatting up the females all in a bid to score some popularity off of your damn success despite your request for discretion in the matter. Seriously. I ing hate politicians.

[Sir Pignans]

I thought it was a bit like scoring an own goal. They just undid a bunch of work, and made the enemy adapt. Clever.

[Gaidin]

Except that he had absolutely all to do with the operation and instead his administration has treated it like a pack of little teenagers whom in confidence you told you managed to lose your virginity to your biggest crush, but fearing that word would get out and embarrass her you swore them to secrecy.

We might as well be consistent. If this is true, then I guess Obama had nothing to do with your problems with post-opsec(if he gets no credit for the things that go right that he was responsible for on a high level he gets frak-all for blame), Bush had nothing to do with Iraq Mk II and Afghanistan, Clinton had nothing to do with Bosnia, Bush Sr had nothing to do with Iraq Mk I....and crap the list goes on. I'll certainly agree that he could've handled post-opsec better, but claiming something like this is probably the daftest thing I've seen you say to date.

[Captain Jin]

We might as well be consistent. If this is true, then I guess Obama had nothing to do with your problems with post-opsec(if he gets no credit for the things that go right that he was responsible for on a high level he gets frak-all for blame), Bush had nothing to do with Iraq Mk II and Afghanistan, Clinton had nothing to do with Bosnia, Bush Sr had nothing to do with Iraq Mk I....and crap the list goes on. I'll certainly agree that he could've handled post-opsec better, but claiming something like this is probably the daftest thing I've seen you say to date.

What the hell are you talking about? Show me the intricate and important role that Obama played in this. Did I say anything aside from the way this operation was done regarding the way Obama has handled the war thus far? Nope. But why don't you explain to me why my comment is so daft other than the fact that Obama authorized the op before they stepped off. The fact is the administration bragged over and over about it to garner points for an upcoming election. That's pretty obvious.

[Shneckie]

It was pretty obvious from the first news of OBL's death that Obama would exploit it for political gains. Indeed all I heard when I switched on the news was Obama pulling some Kim Jong il shite out of his arse.

[Gaidin]

What the hell are you talking about? Show me the intricate and important role that Obama played in this. Did I say anything aside from the way this operation was done regarding the way Obama has handled the war thus far? Nope. But why don't you explain to me why my comment is so daft other than the fact that Obama authorized the op before they stepped off. The fact is the administration bragged over and over about it to garner points for an upcoming election. That's pretty obvious.

You do realize the implications of flying a SEAL team into the heart of a foreign country on what can be construed definitively as a military attack right to the heart of their main military city would have on foreign relations, diplomacy, and other functions of state over the whole damn region right? This was a bloody balancing act the military would never be able to pull off on its own. Not if you really want the conflict over before 2020. You don't want to give the president credit for drawing up the specifics of execution, that's fine. The presidency has never been about micro managing what a 20 man team is doing on a raid with severe implications diplomatically for both success and failure. Hell I'm even willing to bet that's not what the flag officer does either. Obama's job is about high level management of all the agencies and departments involved in executing the raid and deflecting major diplomatic fallout from it. Get your crap straight. That is, if you can get past your tunnel vision and stop missing the forest for staring at the trees.

[Chipp]

Obama was involved with the operation to get Osama as much as Clinton was involved in NOT getting Osama. Fox News subsequently roasted Clinton for this.

Don't be a hypocrite. The glory or the disgrace always falls on the President.

[priam11]

Exactly.

If they operation was a bust and the entire team got wiped out/and or captured, you don't think for a second that fingers would be pointing to the President.

[Captain Jin]

You do realize the implications of flying a SEAL team into the heart of a foreign country on what can be construed definitively as a military attack right to the heart of their main military city would have on foreign relations, diplomacy, and other functions of state over the whole damn region right? This was a bloody balancing act the military would never be able to pull off on its own. Not if you really want the conflict over before 2020. You don't want to give the president credit for drawing up the specifics of execution, that's fine. The presidency has never been about micro managing what a 20 man team is doing on a raid with severe implications diplomatically for both success and failure. Hell I'm even willing to bet that's not what the flag officer does either. Obama's job is about high level management of all the agencies and departments involved in executing the raid and deflecting major diplomatic fallout from it. Get your crap straight. That is, if you can get past your tunnel vision and stop missing the forest for staring at the trees.

Yes and more than likely ironing out those diplomatic issues were handled by the myriad of State Department personnel in Pakistan, military personnel from CENTCOM, or hell maybe it was Admiral Mullens of the Joint Chiefs when he actually called Pakistani Army Chief General Kayani to inform him what we were doing. To be honest he did pretty much what any President would have done in his position and besides there have been rumors that he waffled when it came time to declare go and that Leon Panetta ordered the mission go forward.

Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?

A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.

I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.

Q: What changed the president’s position and enabled the attack against Osama Bin Laden to proceed?

A: Nothing changed with the president’s opinion – he continued to avoid having one. Every time military and intelligence officials appeared to make progress in forming a position, Jarrett would intervene and the stalling would begin again. Hillary started the ball really rolling as far as pressuring Obama began, but it was Panetta and Petraeus who ultimately pushed Obama to finally act – sort of. Panetta was receiving significant reports from both his direct CIA sources, as well as Petraeus-originating Intel. Petraeus was threatening to act on his own via a bombing attack. Panetta reported back to the president that a bombing of the compound would result in successful killing of Osama Bin Laden, and little risk to American lives. Initially, as he had done before, the president indicated a willingness to act. But once again, Jarrett intervened, convincing the president that innocent Pakistani lives could be lost in such a bombing attack, and Obama would be left attempting to explain Panetta’s failed policy. Again Obama hesitated – this time openly delaying further meetings to discuss the issue with Panetta. A brief meeting was held at this time with other officials, including Secretary Gates and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but Gates, like Panetta, was unable to push the president to act. It was at this time that Gates indicated to certain Pentagon officials that he may resign earlier than originally indicated – he was that frustrated. Both Panetta and Clinton convinced him to stay on and see the operation through.

Don't be a hypocrite. The glory or the disgrace always falls on the President.

There's a difference between getting the glory and then quacking about every little facet and detail of the operation in order to garner more applause.

You could piece a lot more together from recent books written by operators who served in teams within JSOC. Descriptions of intelligence and DA operations in the Balkans and how they compare to Iraq and Afghanistan, etc. And even outing countries that staged JSOC forces during the invasion of Afghanistan, and what those teams did in the early days.

That's wholly different than putting the information out there in CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, etc. Many of our SOPs, TTPs, and the basic weaknesses to some of our vehicles and ways to exploit our tactics can be found with diligent research as well, but that doesn't mean we just put that information out there. Why should we make it easier for the enemy?

[Gaidin]

Yes and more than likely ironing out those diplomatic issues were handled by the myriad of State Department personnel in Pakistan, military personnel from CENTCOM, or hell maybe it was Admiral Mullens of the Joint Chiefs when he actually called Pakistani Army Chief General Kayani to inform him what we were doing. To be honest he did pretty much what any President would have done in his position and besides there have been rumors that he waffled when it came time to declare go and that Leon Panetta ordered the mission go forward.

Now you're missing the forest for looking at a different set of trees. You're really having a hard time with this concept.

[PoleCatsAlt]

Source.

I'm really glad I'm not the only person that thought all of this absurd disclosure of what we found there and all the details behind the raid wasn't an idiotic move. Let's put the Special Operations in the limelight for what they did; despite the fact their ability to be effective is contingent upon remaining out of that limelight.[...snip...]

I've thought the same thing. What possible advantage is there to be gained by advertising how we did what we did and what intelligence was found. This just seems like some junior aides idea to boost Obamas poll ratings.

The Special Forces are feared not only for their proficiency but also for the fact that they don't advertize their abilities to our enemies. While I'm glad OBL is dead the aftermath could have been handled with a far greater amount of tact and secrecy.

[kentuckybandit]

This is just like when the Army sold Sears the rights to the 1st Infantry Division name and logo. I would walk by the "Big Red 1" clothing line display in the mall and just shake my head. Sometimes public relations attempts just go horribly wrong. At least they had the decency to deny Disney's request to copyright the name Seal Team 6.

[Wilder]

I'm reminded of Carter, and the failed hostage rescue situation, he caught a ton of slack for that, perhaps unfairly.

In any case, it was sort of inevitable that this would have been described in more detail than would be optimal, regardless of what Obama did. Frankly, I'm surprised we know as little as we do.

[mrmouth]

I dont really have any problem with it. Most of what might be considered OPSEC territory was dropped by 'unnamed sources', and Im betting a lot of it was just people falling all over themselves to open their mouths, and journalists way too eager to squeeze their contacts. Could easily be a situation where a lot of it was bunk, and everyone in the know was just fine with that.

You could piece a lot more together from recent books written by operators who served in teams within JSOC. Descriptions of intelligence and DA operations in the Balkans and how they compare to Iraq and Afghanistan, etc. And even outing countries that staged JSOC forces during the invasion of Afghanistan, and what those teams did in the early days.

And any future book on the UBL raid by any of the well entrenched military writers will paint a substantial picture.

By all accounts, there have been numerous successful, sensitive raids in other countries involving helos and guys roping on targets. This administration hasn't talked about those. This just happened to be the largest manhunt in history, and undertaking it probably shot your or wadd to begin with. I mean, it wasnt hard to piece together some of the unknown or previously unused capabilities the US has. And you have to use them sometime...

A CIA director is largely someone who is going to talk when he wants, and often not going to talk at all. Panetta had no issue with talking about the operation he ran.

[Sphere]

Slightly off-topic, but I do like how the media/public are still buying into the "predator" drone strikes in Pakistan, when it is actually fairly clear that a very different and more advanced set of drone aircraft are being used for the task. Yet the predator has become ingrained in popular culture and shows up in everything from video games to movies.

[Exarch]

y'gotta do what y'gotta do;

i'm sure we'll read all about it 30-40 yrs from now; like the identity of Deep Throat or roswell files

[Burnum]

Do you think that they could have withheld details of an operation of this magnitude? They would of gotten out one way or another, you wouldn't be able to keep it secret for long.

This way the American Government can define the narrative for it's citizens and the other nations. Defining the narrative of what happened, is far more important then any potential intelligence gains that they might of gained. Being open as possible about the operation prevents it from damaging the position of the American Government.

[Captain Jin]

Do you think that they could have withheld details of an operation of this magnitude? They would of gotten out one way or another, you wouldn't be able to keep it secret for long.

This way the American Government can define the narrative for it's citizens and the other nations. Defining the narrative of what happened, is far more important then any potential intelligence gains that they might of gained. Being open as possible about the operation prevents it from damaging the position of the American Government.

I'm not talking about hiding the fact that the raid happened or anything like that. I'm talking about not blabbering about the major cache of information we got there and about the specifics of how we tracked and finally located Bin Laden. Anyway, I'm not worried about other nations. The US has already started spreading the information they recovered to most of our allies intelligence agencies so those countries citizens don't need a blow by blow account of what happened or how it happened and neither do our own. The important thing is that we got him, what good is it to spread more information or reveal our moves? Our allies are getting the intel that we recovered and that's that. It shouldn't turn into a stupid sideshow/entertainment for the masses.

[Burnum]

I'm talking about not blabbering about the major cache of information we got there

Why? Most of the terrorists that Osama Bind Laden was communicating with almost certainly abandoned, the lines of communication would be dead. Besides, they were bringing a large number of Arabic translators to help translate the document, it was almost certain to leak eventually.

Anyway, I'm not worried about other nations.

You should be. Maybe not Australia or NATO, but certainly Indonesia, Pakistan and other Muslim countries. America had to avoid looking like cold blooded murderers or as Assassins. It's the reason why the response in Pakistan was so subdued, especially compared to far more minor incidents.

It shouldn't turn into a stupid sideshow/entertainment for the masses.

Given the state of the American Media, that's to be expected.

[Captain Jin]

Why? Most of the terrorists that Osama Bind Laden was communicating with almost certainly abandoned, the lines of communication would be dead. Besides, they were bringing a large number of Arabic translators to help translate the document, it was almost certain to leak eventually.

That's not necessarily true. Behind the scenes there's been an increase in the amount of upper tier leadership that they've started tagging and bagging after the raid. So the intelligence is bearing fruit. Even if they abandon the lines of the communication it at least lets us put people on their trail. Still, it's much better to leave the bad guys wondering, not clarify what we have and how much of it. As far as if it was bound to leak eventually I'm afraid that's not a valid argument in the black ops community. Number one, we have plenty of Arabic translators that have TS clearances so that point is really moot and secondly just because information might become compromised doesn't mean we should just cast it out willy nilly.

You should be. Maybe not Australia or NATO, but certainly Indonesia, Pakistan and other Muslim countries. America had to avoid looking like cold blooded murderers or as Assassins. It's the reason why the response in Pakistan was so subdued, especially compared to far more minor incidents.

I don't know what you mean by this. How is more details about how we tracked Bin Laden down, what we discovered there, who was involved in the raid etc., have anything to do with not looking like cold blood killers?

Given the state of the American Media, that's to be expected.

Yes, sir. And that is a sad, sad fact.