MPs back identity card proposals

[bigfootedfred]

Government plans to force all passport applicants to get an identity card have been backed by MPs, overturning an earlier defeat in the House of Lords.
Peers have twice defeated the plans, which they say break Labour's election promise that the initial ID scheme would be voluntary.
But Home Secretary Charles Clarke said passports were "voluntary documents" that no-one was forced to renew.
The Identity Cards Bill will return to the House of Lords on Wednesday.
The vote, which Labour won by 310 votes to 277, sets the stage for a constitutional clash between the Commons and the Lords.
Detailed debate
The bill is likely to keep "ping-ponging" between the two houses until a compromise is reached or one side gives way.
Last week peers rejected the plans after Conservatives and Liberal Democrats joined forces to defeat the government.
Critics said the link with passports amounted to "compulsion by stealth".
But Home Office minister Andy Burnham said peers should bow to MPs on the issue.
"This issue has been debated in detail by Parliament," he said.
"It is now time for the Lords to let us get on with the job of building a high quality identity system that will help the UK meet the challenges of the 21st Century."

If peers reject the proposal on Wednesday a fresh effort, MPs are expected to have to vote again in the Commons on Thursday.
Ultimately, if the deadlock continues, the Commons has the option of using the Parliament Act to force the measure through despite the Lords' opposition.

Unless something changes...we britains are getting ID cards.

[DavidtheDuke]

The Lords will probably cave as the Americans senators did against the "Patriot Act"

[bigfootedfred]

The Lords will probably cave as the Americans senators did against the "Patriot Act"

Even if they dont, if they throw it out again.
It WILL pass if its passed in the commons, they will use the parliment act, as they did for foxhunting

[Erik]

What's the problem with ID cards, exactly?

[bigfootedfred]

What's the problem with ID cards, exactly?

ID Cards - the case against
Not just a card. The card is the least of it…

The proposed identity management system has multiple layers:
The NIR (National Identification Register) – individual checking and numbering of the population – marking many personal details as "registrable facts" to be disclosed and constantly updated – collection and checking of biometrics (e.g. fingerprints) - a widespread scanner network and secure (one hopes) infrastructure connecting it to the central database – provision for use across the private and public sectors – data-sharing between organisations on an unprecedented scale - and the card itself.

Massive accumulation of personal data:
51 categories of "registrable fact" were set out in the last Bill, though they could be added to. Effectively an index to all other official and quasi-official records, through cross-references and an audit trail of all checks on the Register, the NIR would be the key to a total life history of every individual, to be retained even after death.

Overseas ID cards are not comparable:
Many western countries that have ID cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in use, with strong legal privacy protections. In Germany centralisation is forbidden for historical reasons, and when cards are replaced, the records are not linked. Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to the Home Office’s. The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern countries and of the People’s Republic of China - though the latter has largely given up on biometrics.

taken from - say NO to ID cards website

Most of us brits here know the implications of this ID card system,
my apologies, i should have provided background information in my post....

This system bascily sets up a national shared database of every single persons life history, and Biometric information.
with of course....ID cards.
And it is NOT voluntary, you have to get it if you apply for a passport, driving lisence ect.

[Erik]

Well, we have something like a "National Identification Register" since the time of Napoleon, and I think it's great because it makes a lot of thing much easier.
But I agree it should not register too many facts.
For example: we used to register religion until WWII, a huge mistake obviously.
Why do they want so many registerable facts?

And since a couple of years we have to carry ID cards (or a passport or driving license) too.
This by itself isn't so bad but we have to carry them every time we leave the door, and the worst thing is: police is allowed to ask them at any point.
I strongly opposed this because I think it can easily cause the police to harass minorities.

I think it's strange they are currently "lacking" behind the rest of the EU, and suddently they want to overtake everybody.
Why dont they take this one step at a time?

[bigfootedfred]

The case agasnt it isnt just that the register will hold almost every detail of an indivduals personal life, and be available on a shared single database...

The Home Office gets the power to alter information - without informing the individual - if it is deemed ‘inaccurate’ or ‘incomplete’. But there’s no duty to ensure that such data is accurate or criterion of accuracy.
Personal identity is implicitly made wholly subject to state control.

Without reference to the courts or any appeals process, the Home Secretary may cancel or require surrender of an identity card, without a right of appeal, at any time.
All this when the object of the scheme is that an ID card will be eventually required to exercise any ordinary civil function

And these are just some of the powers they get.
This massive system Gives the power to goverment to control a persons civic Status, with no courts or checks.
Couple this with the "Aboliton of parliment bill"
And you can see where britain is going, what road we seem to be taking.
Whats happening with this ID card bill, shows what could happen with that bill.