TMW (The Medieval World) *suspended*

[knin]

The Vikings controlled Orkney, Man, and parts of Northern Scotland in 1080, but its hard to justify giving them an entire region. Perhaps a strong rebel/Viking presence in the Highlands would be able to simulate the struggles between Alba and the Vikings.

EDIT: I'm having a little bit of trouble getting Venice the way I want.



This is how I have it now. I can't delete those pixels of land south of the city or the game crashes, and adding a few pixels to the east would prevent the city from looking like its half in the water but I think it makes the island look too big. Anybody have a suggestion?

[Giorgios]

Surely having Venice look as if it's in the water is for the best?

[Christonikos]

The Vikings controlled Orkney, Man, and parts of Northern Scotland in 1080, but its hard to justify giving them an entire region. Perhaps a strong rebel/Viking presence in the Highlands would be able to simulate the struggles between Alba and the Vikings.

Ok, then. Another question. What's going on with rebel settlements? Will, they be like in vanilla, which means many, and the factions will start with 2- 5 regions, or the factions will start as empires? Or, will you just base rebels on hstorical accuracy?

[medievaldude]

Sure, I know some information about Romania, but finding information on Romania as it was in 1080 is not the easiest thing in the world. This page seems to indicate that Tirgoviste wasn't built until the 12th century, which is after the beginning of my mod's time period. This page says that Wallachia didn't become an independent state until the 1300's, and during the late 11th century it was under the control of the Pechenegs and Cumans while Hungary controlled Transylvania to the north. I certainly think it'd be cool to have a Romanian-area faction, but unless you can point me to some sources which dispute what wiki says, this mod, which is based on creating as historically accurate a world as possible, won't be including Wallachia, sorry.

Well from the most things i know of them that they were semi-nomadic people. they lived on the Carpathian mountains, which is in Romania. They for the most part, were protected by the Hungarians who helped them establish there fedual future. It is said they formed a principality in around the 12th century. Then later on they became their own state but paid tribute to there Deepest Hungarian friends.

some sources which dispute what wiki says,

well i read this from Osprey book.

Well from the most things i know of them that they were semi-nomadic people. they lived on the Carpathian mountains, which is in Romania. They for the most part, were protected by the Hungarians who helped them establish there fedual future. It is said they formed a principality in around the 12th century. Then later on they became their own state but paid tribute to there Deepest Hungarian friends.

Let's just say they were a pushover, always following others. But Vlad proved them wrong, and they weren't picked on that much as prior.

[knin]

Scandinavia is up. It's not exactly what I wanted to do, but its the best I could do with the dimensions I had. Nidaros/Trondheim is about 5-7 pixels north of the edge of my map, so right now its out but I'll definitely work on putting it in for more advanced builds of the mod. I still think there are too many regions up there anyway, so at least one will be cut eventually. Anyway, I'll add the pictures to this post so you don't have to scroll through all those images in the first post, though I will keep updating that list also.

Denmark

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Svealand & Gotaland

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Eastern Norway

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Western Norway

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Comments as always

[Grymloq]

Good job
The map in development is the thing I love most in the mods

[knin]

Sicily is done.

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@Christonikos - Rebel settlements will be used to simulate rebellions, dissensions, etc. For example, in 1080, the HRE was in the middle of the Investiture Controversy which partially led to the Great Saxon revolt. Rudolph of Swabia controlled Schwaben and Sachsen in direct opposition to the HRE Henry, so all those provinces will start the game as rebel. Each region will have its own unique name for rebels, though the units that spawn will be similar across cultural regions. Each faction's starting position will represent the extent of territory they controlled in the first half of the year 1080.

[IZob]

How many regions do you plan to put in? I'm sure your aware of the 200 region limit (which includes the water as well).

[knin]

My goal is to use all 199 possible regions, and so far I believe I'm at 102. As I progress further towards the completion of this map, regions may be have to be deleted or combined in order to better balance Western Europe/Eastern Europe/Middle East.

[knin]

Sorry guys, no big screenshot preview tonight, I'm working on the Russian principalities and the maps I'm using have three very different distortions so it's a little difficult to reconcile everyone and get cities in the right spot. After I finish those I'm planning to move on to the Baltic states, which is perhaps the most difficult region of Europe and the Middle East to map in this time. Since the Prussians and their northern neighbors were all still tribal in the 11th century, finding exact locations of permanent settlements is not too easy. I did about an hour of research earlier today and came up with a list of potential hill forts/Viking trading posts that would potentially fit...only 2-3 of these will end up making it into the game. If anyone is familiar with this area of the world before the Baltic Crusades, your input would be very much appreciated.

Here's my list:

Estonia-
Lindanisa/Kolyvan/Tallinn
Varbola - some sort of fortress in Harju

Latvia-
Tervete (Namejs) - Semigallian fort, semi-legendary
Riga/Duna Urbs - Viking trading post

Lithuania-
Apuole - Curonian town/fort, besieged by Vikings in 854, ransomed, not mentioned again until 1253
Grobin(a)/Jurpils - Viking post
Kaup - Viking market town, flourished until end of 10th century, possibly destroyed 1016
Palanga - Curonian center of trade
Kaunas - supposedly built before 1030, but founders unknown
Trakai - potentially the capital of Gediminas
Kernave - supposed capital of Lithuania, not mentioned until 12th century

Prussia-
Truso - Amber Road Viking post in Pomesania
Honeda - Warmian castle (later destroyed and rebuilt as Balga)
Cadina - Pogesanian castle named after the daughter of a chief
Velowe - Nadruvian castle
Raganite - Skalvian fort
Twangste - Prussian fortress (later destroyed and rebuilt as Konigsberg)

[Peanut2bigforyou]

Hey all, I'm not exactly new to the world of R:TW or M2:TW modding, but this is my first attempt at starting a public mod project.

The basis for this mod is somewhat similar to the "Regions and Provinces Mod" or the "Historically Relevant Strat Map Mod" in that my goal is to focus the original M2:TW map on Europe, expand it, and fill it up with many more, more historically accurate regions. My goal is not to carbon copy either mod but, using a brand new base map which I have created, conduct my own research and create the best and most historically accurate map of Europe in the timeframe of the original game.

By focusing the map on Europe, I have eliminated the Aztecs as a faction, freeing up another faction slot. I haven't decided which if any factions I'd like to add to the game yet, because my expertise is primarily in mapping and so I want to focus on the map first. Faction list so far (subject to much change):

Kingdom of England
Kingdom of France
HRE
Republic of Venice
Spain Kingdom of Leon-Castille
Kingdom of Sicily
Milan Republic of Genoa
Kingdom of Scotland
Byzantine Empire
Russia Republic of Novgorod
Moors Almoravid Dynasty
The Turks Seljuk Turks
Egypt Fatimid Caliphate
Kingdom of Denmark
Portugal Kingdom of Navarra or Taifa of Sevilla
Kingdom of Poland
Kingdom of Hungary
The Papal States
Mongols
Timurids
Minor Factions (Rebels)

possible additional factions: (WIP, based on whether or not I can get a team together)
Kievan Rus'
Ireland (probably not united, will focus on one nation)
Kingdom of Norway
Svealand
Lithuania
Kingdom of Dioklea
Kingdom of Hrvatska
...to be continued


I have finally completed my base map and am now slowly working on implementing regions. Here is a teaser of what the scale and terrain of the map look like:
EDIT: England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France, most of HRE, Iberia, Italy, and Scandinavia are done.

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England and Wales

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Scotland

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Ireland

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Southern France & The Alps

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Loire & Seine

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Aquitaine

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Seine & Rhine

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Northern Germany

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Franconia & Bavaria

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Carinthia & Ostmark

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Pommerania

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Aragon & Navarra

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al-Andalus

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Badajoz & Silves

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Galicia, Leon, & Castille

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Northern Italy

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Central Italy & Corsica

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Campania

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Calabria

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Sardinia

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Sicily

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Denmark

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Svealand & Gotaland

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Eastern Norway

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Western Norway

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Dalmatia & Hungary

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Greece

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Turkey & the Bosporus

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Carpathia

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Estonia & Finland

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Northwestern Russia

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Crimea

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The Caucasus

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Urmia & Van

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Nile, Sinai, & Outremer

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Fertile Crescent

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Cyrenaica

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Sicily & Tunisia

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Now that the base map is basically done, the remaining map work is to fill out all the regions, put in all river crossings, and smooth out the coastlines. That last one I'm not looking forward to, I tested it a little bit last night and its extremely time consuming...but totally worth it. If anyone is willing to help me with these last map endeavors, your help is greatly appreciated.

Once the map is completely finished, I'll begin to more extensively search for people who can help me to implement the new factions I discussed above.

In the meantime, even if you can't help, comments/feedback/criticisms are always welcomed!

I look forward to working with any who would be willing to join my humble little modding project.

Hey Knin,
I was looking at the possible factions, and I wondered who Svealand, Kingdom of Dioklea, and Kingdom of Hrvatska was. I'm pretty sure Svealand is Sweden, but I am not familiar with the other two. But for additional factions here are some ideas: Bulgaria (I want this in my mod, but can't fit it in), Keivan Rus (Very Important, maybe more than Novgorod Rus), the Abbasid Caliphate(Because you have the fertile cresent, and they live there and to baghdad), and Georgia. Now the Timurids I don't think should be a faction, only because they are the same empire as the Mongols, only led under a different leader.
P.S. I would be happy to do the tedious anti-pixalating on the map_heights for you and be part of this awsome mod!! I'll PM you my e-mail, so you can send me the file.

[knin]

You're absolutely right about Svealand, its a predecessor of modern Sweden. The country we know today as Sweden wasn't united until the 1200's, before which it was (primarily) split into two petty kingdoms, Svealand and Gotaland. The Kingdom of Dioklea is the medieval incarnation of modern Serbia, and Kingdom of Hrvatska is Croatia. (Hrvatska is Croatia in Croatian language).

As for your suggestions, Bulgaria existed from 681-1018 and then again from 1185-1396. In the starting period of my mod, Bulgaria was back under the control of the Byzantine Empire. Kievan Rus' is in, you must have missed it . With regards to the Abbasids, the fact that their military could not stand up to the emerging dynasties such as the Turkic Seljuks and the Fatimids in Egypt meant that while the Abbasids were a de jure independent state, their lands in Mesopotamia were de facto under the control of the Seljuks. I will say I haven't completely researched my Middle Eastern factions yet, so perhaps once I re-examine the topic I'll find some information that will better distinguish between the Seljuks and the Abbasid Caliphate but for now, they're out. I certainly don't have any problem considering Georgia, so I'll keep that one on the list for now.

[NikeBG]

As for your suggestions, Bulgaria existed from 681-1018 and then again from 1185-1396. In the starting period of my mod, Bulgaria was back under the control of the Byzantine Empire.

The Byzantine "thema Bulgaria" (modern Macedonia, Eastern Serbia, Western Bulgaria) was indeed Byzantine, but I think their "thema Paristrion" (modern Northern Bulgaria) was at the time overran by Pechenegs and full Byzantine control was restored after the battle of Levounion in 1091. I'm not too sure though, so it might be worth checking a recent thread in the VV about the Byzantine-Pecheneg wars. But, in any case, there can be no Bulgarian faction in 1080 indeed.

[Zames]

If I could say as Italian, you maybe could add Pisa as faction, at the time was more important than Genoa and its worst enemy until 1284, what do you think about it?

[knin]

I had actually thought about Pisa, but I haven't decided what to do with them yet. If I made them into a faction, I'd have to split the Tuscany region (which I'm totally fine with), it just means I would have to take away a region somewhere else and I'd like to see how everything balances out first before I would do that. More to come as the map takes shape.

[blur!]

Great work then now , if you need 2d things and skin's, feel free to ask +rep.

[VINC.XXIII]

nice map here, why don't create coastal provinces for North Africa, and a big Sahara?
That would save one or two provinces, and prevent this region against the vanilla syndrome, its ugly to see the latins dominating this so easily.
This region is today hard to control for Algeria and Maroc, personally I can't imagine Castilla, Aragon, or Sicilia holding it.
With strong rebels, only the Moors could conquier Tambuctu, and again with many difficulties(need a harsh rate of rebellion and few adjustements)

I just proposed it as well,... good luck with your mod.

something like that:

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[knin]

Thanks guys.

@Rus-Bey - Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. I seem to remember reading something that having a region that always stays rebel makes the rebels more balanced during gameplay, but I honestly don't remember. Either way, yes, there will be a large, inaccessible Sahara region in North Africa.

I'm afraid once again I don't have a big screenshot update for everyone tonight. I have put in the regions for Rus', but I'm extremely unhappy with how they turned out and upon closer examination I may need to redo the entire area in terms of river and lake placement. The mapping software I'm using, DEMIS, suggested by the wonderful Gigantus, does a great job providing base maps for the typical M2:TW mapper like me, however I'm discovering that the distortion (especially in Russia) is really quite different from most other maps of the area, and so trying to layer a separate province map on top of the game maps I'm working with is frustratingly difficult.

Anyway, its been a long day and I hope tomorrow I'll have a little more patience to work on this area and get it right to the best of my ability, but in the meantime I might go back and fill in the Balkans, Hungary, and Poland and then come back to Rus'. Everyone's comments and encouragement have been really quite wonderful, I sincerely appreciate the attention you all have given my work. Until tomorrow, adieu!

[knin]

@NikeBG - Thanks for pointing me to the VV, that was indeed a very interesting article.

Ok so I'm redoing the Eastern European rivers and city placements, and will eventually go back and fix the region borders. So for now, I have a picture of the Kyiv vicinity but the borders are really messy.

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Also, I'm getting this really strange pseudo-error where the map looks extremely glitchy over certain areas, example below. Does anyone know what causes this?

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[Peanut2bigforyou]

@NikeBG - Thanks for pointing me to the VV, that was indeed a very interesting article.

Ok so I'm redoing the Eastern European rivers and city placements, and will eventually go back and fix the region borders. So for now, I have a picture of the Kyiv vicinity but the borders are really messy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, I'm getting this really strange pseudo-error where the map looks extremely glitchy over certain areas, example below. Does anyone know what causes this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In response to the glitches-make sure the colors in map_heights and map_ground_types are exactly what they should be. Example: in map_height if one of the colors in 4, 4, 5 - that won't work. And if you enter a color in map_heights as 0, 0, 0, it will think of it as water. Hope that helps!