Win Conditions and ideas:

**dvk901** · June 18, 2011, 01:17 PM

I've been thinking about a few things off and on for a while that apply to win conditions, smaller factions, and the menus that show people things before the campaign starts. So I want to throw out a few ideas:

1. What would people think if, instead of a factional unit on the menu screen before you start the campaign, we provided a map that showed what the winning 'empire' should roughly look like for that faction? It would need a bit of work, but I think it might be nice to map out what is expected.

2. In line with the above, I would propose that some existing factions and ALL swap factions have very achievable and sensible win conditions that would make them fun to play, and certainly less tedious in a 0-turn campaign.
I draw this from Swhunter's comments about playing Sparta...which he has done faithfully for a long time....in which he submitted that playing Sparta became extremely difficult once you got around 50 regions.....spiraling into a standoff of battle after battle with nothing gained. So let's say that a reasonable win condition for Sparta would be to conquer all of Greece and Macedon (including Crete and Euboea), over to Byzantion..and then you win.

Pontus: conquer all of Anatolia and the regions along the coast of the Black Sea.
Pergamon: conquer all of Greece, Macedon and Anatolia.
Arverni (and all the Celts): conquer all Celtic areas into Spain and Northern Italy.
Bosporan: Pontus win conditions in reverse
Syracuse: Sicily and North Africa
Massalia: The coastal areas from Gibraltar to Liguria
Galatia: All of Anatolia
Capua: (If I can ever get it working again

) Italy and Sicily

Etc, etc. This way these campaigns could be a bit harder, perhaps, in the initial stages...or just plain hard overall...but with smaller requirements to win.

Thoughts?

**rory o'kane** · June 18, 2011, 05:04 PM

Hmm, this sounds good. I think the Roman regions needed need to be increased by about 10 or so, because otherwise you can't quite get the Empire under Hadrian - i think it's either you have Dacia or Britain because the way the numbers work out.

**TTRouble** · June 18, 2011, 06:20 PM

Hey DVK

I like the idea about having some kind of defined condition so it'll stop you from just kind of cheating to get the campaign over with.

!. Syracuse - the campaign is into year 20 and I;ve already taken most of Italy, all of Sciliy, Sardina and Corsica. If the camp was just limited to Sciliy and Africa, I'd think it was too easy and so far I have recruited just 3.5 full stacks.

2. Seleucids - I kind of hit the same thing that SW hit after taking the 80_ settlement and that was due to the Samaritans attacking on mass at multiple locations and constantly. That was pretty hard to get upto 90 - the battles seemed to be never ending but once that was done and I;d got into the 90's, getting 100 was a bit too easy. I hadn;t conqured all of Asia minor and to get to 100 I beat the free people in Bosphours instead of defeating the Samaritans or taking on Armenia..I kind of felt as if I'd cheated to win.

**AspisPhalanx90** · June 18, 2011, 06:42 PM

I like the idea...itll give people direction to expand in. thing is, we dont want them to be TOO short. either way, definatley something to implement and discuss.

also DVK, if you could let me know what you changed in the Capua campaign id love to give you a hand figuring out how to fix it up

**swhunter** · June 18, 2011, 08:05 PM

Thanks dvk!
Yes i been playing Sparta well over 3 years. And also Mace. and Perg plus the Barbarians.
The 0 turn can be fun, but you will pay for it later in the game as masses of stacks relentlessly come at you.
I had played well over 50 campaigns in Sparta alone on o turn.

Now on 1 turn move is more enjoyable, and at times harder.
Because you better make the right decisions or face losing ground& cities.
I think those locations are good for Sparta' win. Because sooner or later Perg will attack Sparta. And also to try to hold off the Romans.
Sparta is a small faction. Since the start you get one city. So you better be quick and also make friends with others. Once you do this DVK maybe Sparta could use one more stack? And a few others for Greeks?
I been busy lately with my book events , studies ect, and our business.
But will post pics soon.

**TTRouble** · June 19, 2011, 02:12 PM

I've been thinking about the win conditions and personally for the Selecuids at least this is what they should be:

* Defeat at least the following factions Parthia, Ptolmey, Pergamon, capture all of the Hellas from Sparta and the Free Greeks, and finally Rome.

* factions that if theyre still allied and still active that would not be a must defeat faction Pontus and Armenia. Possibly Macedon and Carthage as well.

* Possibly increasing the no of settlements to win to 105 - 100 was a bit too easy after getting past 90 and I hadn't fully defeated Rome in the previous campaign - they had one city left but it was heavily defended and deep in Avenri/Cimbrian territory and I was being swampped by the Samaritans so I took the easy option.

* all 7 wonders

the other factions that I've played :

Macedon -

* Defeat at least Pergamon, Dacia, Sycthia, Free Greeks, Ptolmeys and Rome. Possibly the Boii and Samartia as well.
* 6 out of the 7 wonders
* allied factions - Seleucids and Carthage -

Syracuse -

* Defeat - Rome, Boii, Free greeks inc all in Hellas, Macedon, Dacia and Carthage.

Free Greeks - beat everyone expect the Seleucids, Parthia, Belgae, Cimbri, Galleci

TTrouble...

PS.. SW thanks for the heads up on the 1turn camp, I may just kick off a new Seleucids camp and see how that plays!

**swhunter** · June 20, 2011, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by TTRouble

I've been thinking about the win conditions and personally for the Selecuids at least this is what they should be:

* Defeat at least the following factions Parthia, Ptolmey, Pergamon, capture all of the Hellas from Sparta and the Free Greeks, and finally Rome.

* factions that if theyre still allied and still active that would not be a must defeat faction Pontus and Armenia. Possibly Macedon and Carthage as well.

* Possibly increasing the no of settlements to win to 105 - 100 was a bit too easy after getting past 90 and I hadn't fully defeated Rome in the previous campaign - they had one city left but it was heavily defended and deep in Avenri/Cimbrian territory and I was being swampped by the Samaritans so I took the easy option.

* all 7 wonders

the other factions that I've played :

Macedon -

* Defeat at least Pergamon, Dacia, Sycthia, Free Greeks, Ptolmeys and Rome. Possibly the Boii and Samartia as well.
* 6 out of the 7 wonders
* allied factions - Seleucids and Carthage -

Syracuse -

* Defeat - Rome, Boii, Free greeks inc all in Hellas, Macedon, Dacia and Carthage.

Free Greeks - beat everyone expect the Seleucids, Parthia, Belgae, Cimbri, Galleci

TTrouble...

PS.. SW thanks for the heads up on the 1turn camp, I may just kick off a new Seleucids camp and see how that plays!

Your welcome. Enjoy.

**Ybbon** · June 28, 2011, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by TTRouble

I've been thinking about the win conditions
.....

Macedon -

* Defeat at least Pergamon, Dacia, Sycthia, Free Greeks, Ptolmeys and Rome. Possibly the Boii and Samartia as well.
* 6 out of the 7 wonders
* allied factions - Seleucids and Carthage -

The problem with that, if they defeat Pergamon, then they would be neighbouring Selucids (assuming they had to take Pergamon as part of the win condition) which would make for awkward allies, better would be Armenia or Parthia maybe? Though I would guess, that a more "natural" ally would be one of the Diadochi states but bordering them as would be the case in defeating Pergamon and Ptolemy could be difficult.

**TTRouble** · June 28, 2011, 12:21 PM

Historically, for Macedon during the war against Rome, one of Rome's primary allies was Pergamon so for me it makes sense that both the Selecuids and MAcedon (who were allies during the second Macedonian War) should aim to defeat Pergamon. It might be ok for Macedon to attempt to defeat Armenia or Pontus as well after defeating Pergamon and if the Selecuids are no longer in Asia minor. Knowing the way the AI plays the Seleucids that's always likely to be the case!

**Ybbon** · June 28, 2011, 01:17 PM

Yes, I can see the point, I was more thinking that if you do end up Allied to the Selucids but also bordering them it could be a hard condition to match, but historically your scenario is more accurate and makes more sense.