[Amendment]User-Group Clarification

[Bolkonsky]

Information

Amendment: User-Group Clarification
Proposer: Bolkonsky
Supporters: N/A

Reasoning

To clear up confusion regarding citizen applications and CdeC councilor's judgments of said application. Effectively, this amendment shall require all candidates to apply to Citizenship in the most general sense, and then shall be added to all three groups so that they may choose their "specialty" if you will.

Section III - Member Ranks and the Curator

Article II. Patronisation

Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article I above. The process of patronisation is as follows.

1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community.
3. In the case that the nominee wishes his citizenship application to be public: The patron posts this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, in a new thread in the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum. Transparency of the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum is limited to Citizens only.
4. The candidate may only apply for the rank of Citizen, not Artifex or Civitate.
5. If the nominee wishes his citizenship application to remain private, the patron sends the paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to either the Curator or a member of the Consilium de Civitate. The application itself will then be posted in the Politia.
6. After two days have passed the Curator adds a Poll lasting for five days.
7. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes and at least two-thirds of all CdeC members voted, he becomes a Citizen.
8. In exceptional circumstances, the period of discussion can be extended at the behest of Councilors and discretion of the Curator, to comply with the voting requirements or otherwise.
9. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass, the Curator includes the date at which they may re-apply.
10. If the candidate passes, the Curator promotes the member to Citizen., and add them to the user-groups Citizen, Artifex, and Civitate.
11. The candidate may choose what user-group they shall display at any given time, at their own discretion.

After the conclusion of the vote, if the examination was private the applicant can make it public by PMing the Curator. If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month after the conclusion of the traditional seven day processing period. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise.

I'm going away for a couple days (leaving tonight) so don't fret if I don't reply. I'm not really open to discussion on what the interpretation of the badges are, so I ask that you discuss that elsewhere, as to not derail the thread and remove any useful discussion. Thanks.

[Omnipotent-Q]

At the moment, any citizen may be in any citizen user group they so choose. Users must request permission to be in any of the groups they want to be in (Citizen, Artifex, Civitate) - but generally, I've been encouraging new citizen's to apply for all three and decide themselves as their use of the site evolves, what badge they may or may not want to show.

I'm not sure your proposed change really changes anything - it's another line that can be interpreted any way you like and I'm unsure it will have the effect you suggest. I for one have always opposed separate Artifex, Civitate and Citizen groups simply because it's a slight administrative headache and the more badges you have - the more likely any user could be confused by the system. I would most probably support an amendment to revert the addition of Artifex and Citizen to the constitution, with a return to "Civitate" as the only rank for all of the above (any contribution basically) - i.e., you contribute or add something to the site in the eyes of CdeC, you get made a Civitate - irrespective of where the "contributions" may be.

[Bolkonsky]

Call it a knee-jerk reaction, but I'm sick of the debate about people putting [Artifex] on their apps, and then pointing out their D&D contributions, and have long arguments about whether or not they should be taken into account. Basically this is a way of clarifying that there's only one rank, and three badges.

I wouldn't object to merging them, but sadly such an amendment would never pass.

['Gunny]

It's just reiterating what already goes, also

1. The candidate may choose what user-group they shall display at their own discretion.

Is already in Article I Section III

[Bolkonsky]

True. I was thinking more of a "you can change it at any time" thing. Perhaps I'll edit it.

[Okmin]

I thought it already worked this way...

[Bolkonsky]

It does. This is an attempt at making it official and clearing up some confusion.

[Thoragoros]

Absolutely postiviely SUPPORT!

I too am sick of the general confusion in the CdeC where everything is either 'understood' or is 'a rule via tradiation.' It is ridiculous, let's get some guidelines hammered out.

The CdeC has a clear cut purpose, so let's finally get some clear cut guidelines.

EDIT

Oppose.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Opposed.

I don't want the Artifex group being listed in my profile group membership box!!

[ForteS]

Since it seems to be what is already being done, I've no problem supporting it.

[Gertrudius]

I think the premise is good, but like Hesus I don't like the idea of automatically being a member of all three user groups. Why not simply stipulate that all citizen applicants do so under the title of citizen, allowing the CdeC to judge an applicant on all of their individual merits. Let's keep the receipt of civitate or artifex badges as is such that an individual who passes their citizenship application can simply submit a request to join whichever group they want to be displayed. That way it removes the real ambiguity, but still leaves it in the hands of the citizen to determine which user groups they want to be affiliated with.

Just my jumbled thoughts on the matter.

[Babur]

I am happy with the current system so I don't really support this

[Bolkonsky]

I am happy with the current system so I don't really support this

Well, all this would really do is take bias and confusion out of applications.

On second thought, why should a modder be able to display as a Civitate, or a debater display as an Artifex? Wouldn't that destroy the meaning of both badges?

Perhaps the Curator or Patron should decide which group the Applicant belongs to after he/she has passed the vote in the CdeC?

Because it's all the same. If someone's a Citizen, chances are they'll display the badge that they think they should. The point is mainly in the red. Anything else just creates barriers.

[Babur]

Well, all this would really do is take bias and confusion out of applications.

I don't see what is wrong with being members of all three groups

['Gunny]

1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community.
3. In the case that the nominee wishes his citizenship application to be public: The patron posts this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, in a new thread in the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum. Transparency of the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum is limited to Citizens only.
4. The candidate may only apply for the rank of Citizen, not Artifex or Civitate.
5. If the nominee wishes his citizenship application to remain private, the patron sends the paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to either the Curator or a member of the Consilium de Civitate. The application itself will then be posted in the Politia.
6. After two days have passed the Curator adds a Poll lasting for five days.
7. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes and at least two-thirds of all CdeC members voted, he becomes a Citizen.
8. In exceptional circumstances, the period of discussion can be extended at the behest of Councilors and discretion of the Curator, to comply with the voting requirements or otherwise.
9. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass, the Curator includes the date at which they may re-apply.
10. If the candidate passes, the Curator promotes the member to Citizen., and add them to the user-groups Citizen, Artifex, and/or Civitate, based on the choice of the candidate.

[Bolkonsky]

We could always make it so that Artifex and Civitate don't show up on the user's profile. Sort of like Moderator and Content Staff.

That would work as well, Gunny.

[Omnipotent-Q]

We could always make it so that Artifex and Civitate don't show up on the user's profile. Sort of like Moderator and Content Staff.

That would work as well, Gunny.

If you're a member of all citizen groups, it only shows the Citizen blurb under the avatar + whatever badge you identify yourself as, although it does list the groups in the public usergroups panel of a profile.

Constutionally at the moment, any Citizen can show whatever Citizen badge they like - it's their choice, and I'd oppose strongly anything that takes that choice away from Citizen's.

Further the Curator doesn't "add" people to Citizenship groups - it's the wrong choice of words. The Curator simply approves join requests into the respective Citizenship group. Thor is indeed right - although Citizen's can brand themselves with any Citizen badge (Artifex, Civitate, Citizen) - people generally go for the right badge for what is de facto considered the badge more closely related to what they do. It's in fact extremely rare for it to be otherwise.

I'll reiterate my earlier point - I'm not really opposed to this but if it's going to cause more ambiguity (I think it does in the form proposed at the moment) and if it takes away the right of a citizen to choose, I will also oppose. However I would support strongly reverting the addition of Artifex and Citizen to the constitution and would support a "one badge fits all citizen's" solution we had when everyone was under the Civitate badge. This is simply because it's easy to administer one public usergroup for numerous good reasons and it makes the system less confusing for most visitors and normal members with all these different badges whirling around. That and it would instantly solve the ambiguity that contributions don't necessarily have to be "debating" or "modding" to be a citizen - any contribution, any poster, any person who comes to the site often and adds something to the community often can be considered for Citizenship in a non-ambiguous manner no matter what their background is on the site - i.e. where they're most often found on the forum etc. It would also free up some room for the possibility of Patrician re-appearing to give out to those who patronise frequently and/or debate in the Curia often. A new deal almost you could say.

[Thoragoros]

On second thought, why should a modder be able to display as a Civitate, or a debater display as an Artifex? Wouldn't that destroy the meaning of both badges?

Perhaps the Curator or Patron should decide which group the Applicant belongs to after he/she has passed the vote in the CdeC?

['Gunny]

Babur, it is the current System, just made more clear

Section III - Member Ranks and the Curator

Article II. Patronisation

Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article I above. The process of patronisation is as follows.

1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community.
3. In the case that the nominee wishes his citizenship application to be public: The patron posts this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, in a new thread in the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum. Transparency of the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum is limited to Citizens only.
4. The candidate may only apply for the rank of Citizen, not Artifex or Civitate.
5. If the nominee wishes his citizenship application to remain private, the patron sends the paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to either the Curator or a member of the Consilium de Civitate. The application itself will then be posted in the Politia.
6. After two days have passed the Curator adds a Poll lasting for five days.
7. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes and at least two-thirds of all CdeC members voted, he becomes a Citizen.
8. In exceptional circumstances, the period of discussion can be extended at the behest of Councilors and discretion of the Curator, to comply with the voting requirements or otherwise.
9. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass, the Curator includes the date at which they may re-apply.
10. If the candidate passes, the Curator promotes the member to Citizen., and adds them to the user-group(s) Citizen, Artifex, and/or Civitate, based on the choice of the candidate.

After the conclusion of the vote, if the examination was private the applicant can make it public by PMing the Curator. If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month after the conclusion of the traditional seven day processing period. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise.

^This I would support. It is just making the system more clear.

EDIT: Thor, some people change. If you start a modder, but after a while you leave that field and start debating alot, wouldn't you like to be able to display Civitate?
If Babur were to all of a sudden become fascinated by the inner workinging of the TW engine and go on to start releasing mods that begin to rival the legacy of Darthmod, he should be able to change. It is all how people want to identify themselves anyway, it's not like Darth Vader would want to display civitate, or Hesus Artifex, it is all how a person defines themself.

[Thoragoros]

Because it's all the same. If someone's a Citizen, chances are they'll display the badge that they think they should. The point is mainly in the red. Anything else just creates barriers.

EDIT: Thor, some people change. If you start a modder, but after a while you leave that field and start debating alot, wouldn't you like to be able to display Civitate?
If Babur were to all of a sudden become fascinated by the inner workinging of the TW engine and go on to start releasing mods that begin to rival the legacy of Darthmod, he should be able to change. It is all how people want to identify themselves anyway, it's not like Darth Vader would want to display civitate, or Hesus Artifex, it is all how a person defines themself.

You're both stating the obvious on a point that nobody is argueing.

Glance at my sidebar and you'll see that I myself changed my badge-type. I used display as an Artifex, I now display as a Citizen. Why? Because my focus on the site shifted from modding to a more general role. It was my choice, and the Curator agreed to it. So who, exactly, is arguing about members being able to choose?

Nevertheless , the badges 'frame' the Applicant and their contributions, currently the badges more or less point out where and how the member contributes. So while any member can choose to apply for any badge, it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming number of Citizens currently display the badge that best fits their area of participation.