how to use pikemen properly?

**Cheator** · June 16, 2011, 05:43 PM

I was playing as Scotland and made extensive use of pikemen in my armies. That's until i realized the idiots raised their bloody pikes right before the enemy charged them
I don't recall my hoplites ever doing anything remotely so moronic back in Rome Total War
And since I doubt we're talking about natural devolution and plummetting IQ through the ages, I assume that the way to use them (toggle spear wall, right click enemy) has been changed and I'm doing it wrong

So how do I use them properly?

**Veliky Kaiser Theos** · June 16, 2011, 05:55 PM

Remove their secondary weapons. That involves editing the export_descr_units file.

**Aeratus** · June 16, 2011, 08:52 PM

Generally, disable guard mode when fighting infantry. Guard mode increases the tendency to go "bracing," which somehow causes the pikemen to take out swords when there are enemies nearby.

Generally, when fighting infantry, the pikemen should be ordered to attack, rather than sit there and get attacked. If they are just sitting there while being attacked, they take out swords. This is the opposite of how they were used in RTW.

**crzyrndm** · June 16, 2011, 10:36 PM

Generally its not worth going pike heavy because of this minor problem. They do this because if they keep their pikes they become the unstoppable killing machines from rome(this is what happens if you remove the secondary) and there isn't really much of a counter to that in M2(not many javelin type units). If you want to make the effort to make them work, watch them and every time they switch just flick spearwall on and back off(off & on). they normally reset if you do this but it's fairly micro intensive

**Cheator** · June 17, 2011, 06:55 AM

J.Philp, editting the game files is unfortunately not an option since unpacking my game causes crashes everytime I enter battle

Aeratus, I tried using them both with and without guard mode enabled and it was the same thing
What's even worse is that they don't do it just against infantry - I had to sit there and watch how a unit of light cavalry charged my noble pikement head on, on a narrow street and slaughtered them

crzyrndm, I'd imagine crossbowmen (archers too, since most pikemen have no armour), gunmen, artillery and flanking would still be effective against them
It wasn't necessary to gimp them like that
I'll try the flicking thing

Alternatively, if that doesn't work, is there anyway to use a modified export_descr_unit without unpacking my game (on vanilla campaign)?

**_Elysium_** · June 17, 2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Cheator

J.Philp, editting the game files is unfortunately not an option since unpacking my game causes crashes everytime I enter battle

Did you delete the two files as mentioned in the Unpacker ReadMe file? I didn't when I unpacked my files, and my game crashed on entering battle. I then deleted the two files and it was sorted.

**MooseUpNorth** · June 17, 2011, 02:02 PM

Yep. Reading the unpacker readme instructions fully is not even slightly optional.

**crzyrndm** · June 17, 2011, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cheator

crzyrndm, I'd imagine crossbowmen (archers too, since most pikemen have no armour), gunmen, artillery and flanking would still be effective against them
It wasn't necessary to gimp them like that
I'll try the flicking thing

IIRC noble pikes have some serious armour and archers are alot less effective against them than you might think(especially as the AI won't target them specifically). also places where you can't shoot them (ie. behind a gate) they become almost as exploitive as stakes, because no melee unit can touch them, and no ranged unit will be able to shoot them.

And to stop the crashes read the unpacker readme. There is 2 files you have to delete

**PrestigeX** · June 18, 2011, 05:34 PM

Use pikemen for garrison / sieges, and bridge battles.

They are amazing in defending a gate, if you have 4-6 units of pikes all arranged in a kind of semi-circle around the gate - overlapping lines, etc.. Amazing.

trying to use them in the field battles, is much harder -- they're easy to flank, they require a lot of micromanagement, they're vulnerable to missile fire - its just better to use Spear militia -- honestly, spear militia with blacksmith or armorer in scotland's case, more than fine as a substitute for pikes.

If you do want to use them , I find it best to treat them very differently from other infantry. Other units of infantry, you might be inclined to deploy them in a long line, each unit side by side to the next.

With the pikemen, I find it always always better to deploy in Two lines. Even if you don't have that many of them, say 6 -- you can just stretch those lines thinner... because the 2nd line will be right behind. Its easier this way to mananage because each line will swap roles. Like 1st line is engaged, they poke a bit and out come the swords - meanwhile you order the 2nd line to 'attack' and they'll push with their pikes a lot longer without drawing swords. Then maybe the 2nd line has made it more 'forward' and you can order the 1st line to attack - and they'll go back to pikes.

The other thing that works well enough with pikes, is when you have them in large 'boxes' with many pike units over-lapping / supporting each other, they'll be able to have pikes poking out from behind the men in the front... Even better if you combine with other units. As scotland, give Noble Pikes + Noble swordsmen a try, mixing the two together.

**wowbanger** · June 17, 2011, 07:06 AM

How many times is this question going to be asked?

I'll just leave this link, which provides the best explanation of how use unmodded pikemen effectively, far better than I could anyway.
How to Employ Pikemen

**Cheator** · June 19, 2011, 12:13 AM

Thanks for the tips

As for the unpacker issue - I haven't deleted any files, probably that was the problem

**... where did it run?** · June 19, 2011, 05:32 AM

Once you remove secondary weapon for pikes they don't become "stronger". They become Immortal. And really skrews up all the balance. For example simple pike militia can take on knights on any angle even if they attack pikemen from the rear. That is outrageous.