Secret Ballot Act Rev.

[Mímirswell]

Secret Ballot Act Revision Bill

Proposer: Mimirswell
Supporters: Shadows, Simetrical, imb39

(blue text is added text, red text is removed text)

Secret Ballots Act

No member will be able to view the results of a poll in the Curia until he has voted in the poll or it has closed. In addition, the ability to reply to polls involving elections, ostrakons, or legislation shall be disabled.

If the forum software cannot reasonably be modified to prohibit viewing of poll results by any given member, that member, is hereby obliged on their honour as a Civitates not to view the results of any poll in the Curia he has not voted in unless necessary for the execution of any duties he may have to the site.

Secret Ballots Act

To the extent made possible by the forum software, no member will be able to view the results of a poll in the Curia until he has voted in the poll or it has closed.

If the forum software cannot reasonably be modified to prohibit viewing of poll results by any given member, that member, is hereby obliged on their honour as a Civitates not to view the results of any poll in the Curia he has not voted in unless necessary for the execution of any duties he may have to the site.

[Shadows]

Mimerswell, do you really think that people viewing poll results is that big of a problem?? Really I don't know about everyone else, but how the other members of TWC vote on a specific issue will not influence my opinion about that issue. Now on elections and some legislation not being able to view results would be for the better, but for an ostrakon?? Seeing the results of an ostrakon vote doesn't seem to be that much of a problem IMO, if the person is up for an ostrakon, how many people will vote against it, just because they saw that some other civitates voted against it??

[rez]

I think it implies more about judging people by their vote. which is not supposed to happen.... right?

[Mímirswell]

Correct. This has two major purposes. One, it confines discussion to the Prothalamos thread and two, it prevents undue bias in voting. Because of the need for legislative history when bills are disputed later; it's much more efficient to keep all comments in one thread.

[Spiff]

This is a good idea for obvious reasons - It is silly to disable viewing results while allowing people to post "voted for/against" at the same time, knowing the popularity of a response is a powerful form of unfair persuasion. But i would not think it possible to disable replies and still allow voting, though i could be wrong..

I'd like to therefore know what is actually possible to implement

[Shadows]

well, reading the previous posts I think that confining disscusion to the Prothalamos would be good thing. But I still dont know about the "unfair persuasion" part. And Spiff is right, you can't be able to view results and post how you voted, you have to get rid of them both to effectively change the voting process. And he brings up a good point about the possiblity of doing this, unless some mod. is going to spend all their time in the Curia Vote section deleting posts. Which I doubt anyone would like to do.

[Spiff]

I believe the task would fall to Mimirswell himself as Pro-Curator if it cannot be implemented via software changes, possibly a lot of work at first until convention set in.

[Muizer]

Since the aim is to confine the discussion to the prothalamos I assume that "executive summaries" or other statements that serve no purpose as part of the amendment or act itself will not be included as part of the proposal in the vote thread?

Mzr

[Mímirswell]

This change simply disables replying. You can still view results. There is a vBulletin modification that would also hide the "view poll results" but it requires clearance from ON first. That's outside of the juristiction of the Curia; ergo, this is the best change I can implement.

[Mímirswell]

I don't see an issue with the summaries or the opposition idea you have suggested being implemented in addition to this but a link would be mandatory.

I would do it similar to this:
Link to Prothalamos thread
Summary by proposer
Opposition response
Text of the bill

[Shadows]

if you are going to set up each bill propsal like that then I see no problem with disallowing commenting in the voting thread. I also don't see a problem with disallowing viewing vote results before voting. You have convinced me to reach the decision that I will support this proposal.

[Simetrical]

I support, certainly. I proposed something like this a while ago, and it died.

[imb39]

I'll second, if you want, Mim

[Belisarius]

In addition, the ability to reply to polls involving elections, ostrakons, or legislation shall be disabled.

I dont like it, I want to post voted and know who did and did not vote so I can remind some people.

[Mímirswell]

Valid concerns I must concede. I would argue that the negatives outweight the positives but the Curia should decide.

[Belisarius]

What Negatives, that cant be amended by telling our educated "Above the mire" Civitates not to do something?

[the Black Prince]

mimirswell, you can no longer propose legislation without ceding your position as pro-curator for the purposes of that bill...

[Belisarius]

mimirswell, you can no longer propose legislation without ceding your position as pro-curator for the purposes of that bill...

Bollocks, Mir can propose what he wants But Justinian has to move it to vote. He is Curator you know!

[Muizer]

Bollocks, Mir can propose what he wants But Justinian has to move it to vote. He is Curator you know!

Which is what tBP was saying I suppose. Meaning? Concerning the timing of moving bills to the vote Mimirswell cannot use his own discretion on proposals sponsored or supported by him. We'll see.

[Belisarius]

Its not as if it some unknown rule. Thats in chapter one of the Pro Curator handbook.