Richard Dawkins fleeing from debates with William Lane Craig

[SigniferOne]

Excellent video about this. I think the list of New Atheists expressing admiration for WLC, including Harris and Dennet (not to mention the Oxford philosophy professor and others) makes it a real question:

Why does Dawkins make a pretense that he will debate any and all who'll come to him, but in fact tries to pick the weakest links among his opponents, and studiously avoids the heavyweights, under whom he'd crumble.

[Jack04]

I suspect it's because it would be an embarrassment and he (Dawkins) knows it. Craig would tear him to shreds. He's a far, far better debater than any of the atheists whose debates I have ever seen and Dawkins by no means the best of those (if anything, he's amongst the worst, I feel).

[Sphere]

Dawkins is indeed a rather bad debater. Doesn't make him wrong though.

[James the Red]

Good find there Signifer, never did care much for Dawkins.

[Dr. Croccer]

Wow. That's some dickish snubbing if true.

[(s)AINT]

He can debate anyone he chooses.

Hitchen's is a far greater debater than Dawkins btw.

Dawkins is indeed a rather bad debater. Doesn't make him wrong though.

Agreed. His arguments and logic are not void because he is a poor debater.

[Visna]

Why does Dawkins make a pretense that he will debate any and all who'll come to him, but in fact tries to pick the weakest links among his opponents, and studiously avoids the heavyweights, under whom he'd crumble.

I suspect you'll have to ask Dawkins that.
And just because he's not terribly skilled at delivering his points doesn't invalidate his points.
Personally if I had to choose I'd go for Hitchens as well. Although there is something quite sad about grown up men arguing about the existance and nature of God. It seems like an awful waste of unquestionable intelligence.

[Denny Crane!]

I suspect you'll have to ask Dawkins that.
And just because he's not terribly skilled at delivering his points doesn't invalidate his points.
Personally if I had to choose I'd go for Hitchens as well. Although there is something quite sad about grown up men arguing about the existance and nature of God. It seems like an awful waste of unquestionable intelligence.

Except it is a question of utmost importance considering the role of religion in politics and its incredible influence on our lives.

[Visna]

Except it is a question of utmost importance considering the role of religion in politics and its incredible influence on our lives.

That's the point. It shouldn't have a role in politics, and it's influence on our lives should be limited. I don't care how people dress or to what God(s) they choose to pray, but I'm respectful of their chosen way of life. But for some reason some people are finding it difficult to extend the same courtesy, heck some even want to decide what my future children should learn in biology classes.
That's not to say I don't find religious ceremonies and such interesting, I do, I just don't, you know, feel it. Except for this one time with some Viking reenactors. Protip: if getting drunk and loud is the epitome of fun, Norse pagans > all.

[Denny Crane!]

That's the point. It shouldn't have a role in politics, and it's influence on our lives should be limited. I don't care how people dress or to what God(s) they choose to pray, but I'm respectful of their chosen way of life. But for some reason some people are finding it difficult to extend the same courtesy, heck some even want to decide what my future children should learn in biology classes.

Well of course, I seem to see these debates as forming part of the debate about how its ifnluence exists in our lives. It wasn't so long ago say in our country that religion was fundamental in politics and even in the last decade we've seen huge rises in the likes of faith schools abd activism on the part of religious groups in politics. Over the water in Ireland they've only just started the same process of becoming properly secularised and I'm sure you saw the referendum in Malta.

I'm not even going to touch the USA on this one....

That's not to say I don't find religious ceremonies and such interesting, I do, I just don't, you know, feel it. Except for this one time with some Viking reenactors. Protip: if getting drunk and loud is the epitome of fun, Norse pagans > all.

That sounds like the kind of religions ceremony I could get behind!

[SigniferOne]

Hitchen's is a far greater debater than Dawkins btw.

Did you watch the Hitchens debate? Or the Harris debate? They can barely hold their own, and at worst get totally schooled on whatever in-depth subject happens to be at the moment.

[(s)AINT]

Did you watch the Hitchens debate? Or the Harris debate? They can barely hold their own, and at worst get totally schooled on whatever in-depth subject happens to be at the moment.

Are you ing serious? You've obviously never watched a Hitchens or Harris debate. If you have you probably closed your eyes and covered your ears.

The religious and creationist arguments change every ing debate. And you know it.

[Amorphos]

Well what are his apparently awesome responses to atheistic perceptions? What would make Dawkins 'flee'?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Did you watch the Hitchens debate? Or the Harris debate? They can barely hold their own, and at worst get totally schooled on whatever in-depth subject happens to be at the moment.

Did you see the debate between the Pope and Galileo? Hold on, I'll find a youtube video.

[Denny Crane!]

Did you see the debate between the Pope and Galileo? Hold on, I'll find a youtube video.

[justicar5]

Did you watch the Hitchens debate? Or the Harris debate? They can barely hold their own, and at worst get totally schooled on whatever in-depth subject happens to be at the moment.

becaue thye are to polite to call theism for what it is: A justification for Narcissism among the self appointed elect formed by stone and bronze age warlords to cement their power and destroy natural human empathy, thus allowing expansion and conquest in the name of divine edict and the annihilation of all opponents foreign and domestic. God is hate. God is murder and above all God is a lie. The bible is far worse than even Mein Kampf and should, like that book, only be available for scholarly study into how societies can be twisted into all consuming death factories. The rise of Theism and especially monotheism is the single most catastprohic event in human history, with a death toll in the billions and rising daily.

[Trax]

becaue thye are to polite to call theism for what it is: A justification for Narcissism among the self appointed elect formed by stone and bronze age warlords to cement their power and destroy natural human empathy, thus allowing expansion and conquest in the name of divine edict and the annihilation of all opponents foreign and domestic. God is hate. God is murder and above all God is a lie. The bible is far worse than even Mein Kampf and should, like that book, only be available for scholarly study into how societies can be twisted into all consuming death factories. The rise of Theism and especially monotheism is the single most catastprohic event in human history.

WTF?

Stop giving atheists bad name. Not even a Marxist would approach religion with so much hate. You just end up antagonising people. Not to speak that most of your post is pure nonsense.

[justicar5]

WTF?

Stop giving atheists bad name. Not even a Marxist would approach religion with so much hate. You just end up antagonising people. Not to speak that most of your post is pure nonsense.

not an atheist anymore, have moved to Malteism, there is a god and he is an evil and capricous monster, whose followers are at best deluded and at worst as monsterous as him.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

becaue thye are to polite to call theism for what it is: A justification for Narcissism among the self appointed elect formed by stone and bronze age warlords to cement their power and destroy natural human empathy, thus allowing expansion and conquest in the name of divine edict and the annihilation of all opponents foreign and domestic. God is hate. God is murder and above all God is a lie. The bible is far worse than even Mein Kampf and should, like that book, only be available for scholarly study into how societies can be twisted into all consuming death factories. The rise of Theism and especially monotheism is the single most catastprohic event in human history, with a death toll in the billions and rising daily.

Please don't hold back justicar5, tell us what you really think

[Squiggle]

Agreed. His arguments and logic are not void because he is a poor debater.

Yes. The complete fail of his arguments are a separate, though just as true a matter as him being a coward.

Are you ing serious? You've obviously never watched a Hitchens or Harris debate. If you have you probably closed your eyes and covered your ears.

The religious and creationist arguments change every ing debate. And you know it.

No educated individual [I mean in matters related ofc] could ever possibly delude themselves to the hitchens/harris debate being anything but a one sided rape. Even atheist websites admit it, such as: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=392

Quite frankly anyone who looks to the horsemen as a source of material for their atheistic POV is so ignorant that the only value in conversation with them is a good laugh. There are half decent arguments out there, and actually educated philosophers who are atheists. Dawkins and the like are jokes, and so are their supporters.