Israel: "Will lift the siege on Gaza, if Hamas agrees to negotiations"

[Rome101]

I heard today on the radio the Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, saying that "if Hamas recognizes Israel and agrees to negotiate with it, Israel will see it as a legitimate official side in the dialog, and Gaza will be immediately alleviated", and added "Israel will not be against Hamas running the territory".
From what I understand, this means the immediate relief of restrictions on anything but weapons from the Gaza strip. This might well include building materials (because the discussion revolved around how building helps Gazans find employment).

I guess it's up to the Hamas now, if it truly wants peace and to enter diplomatic negotiations. It's time for Hamas to show its true intentions, and reveal if it seeks peace and coexistence, or if it just gets the kick from watching Palestinians and Israelis suffer.

[PointOfViewGun]

One only wonders why Israel rejected negotiations in the past... Kinda makes the sincerity of this questionable.

[garudamon11]

It is questionable, I think the point of this is to make it seem like Hamas is the one who's rejecting the peace

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

It is questionable, I think the point of this is to make it seem like Hamas is the one who's rejecting the peace

And if they don't accept our offer we'll know that to be true, won't we? (Not like they've ever been peaceful in the past)

[Treize]

And if they don't accept our offer we'll know that to be true, won't we? (Not like they've ever been peaceful in the past)

It usually revolves around asking unreasonable consessions and then blaming them for not wanting peace.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

It usually revolves around asking unreasonable consessions and then blaming them for not wanting peace.

Recognise our right to exist = Far-fetched unrealistic demand to make puppy-loving Hamas look *gasp* bad.

[Treize]

Recognise our right to exist = Far-fetched unrealistic demand to make puppy-loving Hamas look *gasp* bad.

Giving up your claim to 80% of the land you consider yours is quite extreme if you ask me. I know I never would, I don't even think Belgium is legitimate.

[Morbius Sire]

Recognise our right to exist = Far-fetched unrealistic demand to make puppy-loving Hamas look *gasp* bad.

they can't recognize your right to exist if you don't recognize their right to exist. Which is evident by the settlements, and the Gaza siege among others.

[Rome101]

You cannot expect a country to negotiate with a body which does not recognize its legitimacy. As I said before (and as many world leaders also said), "you cannot make demands from someone you don't believe exists" (poor translation, but you get the point).

"I think the point of this is to make it seem like Hamas is the one who's rejecting the peace"
and if they refuse, wouldn't it mean they really are those who reject peace?
What is unreasonable about Israel's proposal here? They are basically saying "We are willing to enter negotiations without any prerequisite conditions", which is exactly what the Hamas demanded.
The ball is at Hamas's side of the field. Let's see what they chose to do with it.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

You cannot expect a country to negotiate with a body which does not recognize its legitimacy. As I said before (and as many world leaders also said), "you cannot make demands from someone you don't believe exists" (poor translation, but you get the point).

"I think the point of this is to make it seem like Hamas is the one who's rejecting the peace"
and if they refuse, wouldn't it mean they really are those who reject peace?
What is unreasonable about Israel's proposal here? They are basically saying "We are willing to enter negotiations without any prerequisite conditions", which is exactly what the Hamas demanded.
The ball is at Hamas's side of the field. Let's see what they chose to do with it.

Settlements should be stopped.The USA asked for a freeze on them ages ago and Bibi ignored them.Bibi does not want talks he choose settlement building.This is just Israel getting nervous b4 septembers voting...I will not be fooled by Bibi tours he is a conman

U.S. pressuring Netanyahu to accept Obama's peace plan

Israeli source says Americans frustrated with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for hampering U.S. efforts to stop Palestinians trying UN route to statehood in September.

By Barak Ravid Tags: Benjamin Netanyahu Israel US Barack Obama Palestinian state Palestinians


Washington is pressuring Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to accede to its proposal to resume Israeli-Palestinian peace talks on the basis of U.S. President Barack Obama's May 19 speech.

An Israeli source who spoke recently with senior officials in Washington said the Americans were very frustrated with Netanyahu's behavior, feeling that he was impeding America's efforts to keep the Palestinians from unilaterally seeking UN recognition of a state in September.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and nine of his ministers on their way to Italy for two days of talks, June 12 2011.
Photo by: GPO
Netanyahu's personal envoy, Isaac Molho, spent last week in Washington, where the Americans presented their proposal for resuming talks on the basis of Obama's speech. Specifically, Obama's plan calls for negotiating over borders and security first, while deferring issues such as Jerusalem and the refugees until later. It also calls for the borders to be based on the 1967 lines, with mutually agreed land swaps.
The Americans told Molho that to block European initiatives such as France's proposal for an international peace conference in Paris, they must have something concrete to offer, like Netanyahu's agreement to negotiate on the basis of Obama's speech.
The U.S. proposal was also given to chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat, who said the Palestinians would resume talks on this basis.
Meanwhile, a European diplomat who was briefed on Molho's talks in Washington said they were fruitless. "The Americans didn't get anything new from Molho," the diplomat said.
This week, American diplomat David Hale will arrive in Israel to hold further meetings with both Molho and Erekat. Hale is temporarily replacing George Mitchell, the U.S. special envoy who resigned earlier this year.
An Israeli source who maintains close ties with both senior U.S. officials and people close to Netanyahu said that Washington's frustration began with Netanyahu's trip to Washington last month, when he publicly fought with Obama and then refused in an address to Congress to endorse the president's outline for talks. The Americans were now speaking very harshly of Netanyahu, said the source.
"He's asking us to protect him in September, but he isn't giving us any tools with which to help him," the source quoted one American official as saying. "Instead of helping us, he's making it harder for us."
As a result, American officials complained, Obama was unable to get Britain and France to commit to opposing a unilateral Palestinian move when he visited Europe last month.
"The Americans need Israel inside, but Netanyahu isn't there yet," the source said. "To date, from the American and European perspective, Israel hasn't given anything."
European diplomats said Netanyahu's speech to Congress was viewed in Europe as one long "no" and had thus increased European distrust of him. "We want to hear Netanyahu say he's willing to negotiate on the basis of Obama's speech and that he'll discuss borders based on the 1967 lines with land swaps," said one diplomat.
Since the barren talks with Molho last week, the White House has been upping the pressure on Netanyahu. On Friday, Steve Simon, who heads the U.S. National Security Council's Middle East desk, told American Jewish leaders that Netanyahu needs to reply within a month to the U.S. proposal for restarting talks. The White House knew this remark would both be conveyed to Netanyahu and leaked to the American and Israeli press, thus making its displeasure public.
But Netanyahu's office insisted it was "unaware of any American pressure or ultimatum."
Yesterday, Netanyahu flew to Italy, where he will meet with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi today. The latter has already announced that Italy will oppose any unilateral Palestinian move.
On Tuesday, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle will meet with Netanyahu to warn that while Berlin also opposes unilateral statehood, if the diplomatic impasse continues, it will sponsor a UN Security Council resolution, together with Britain and France, that calls on the council to endorse Obama's speech as the basis for talks. I THINK THE WORLD IS GETTING TIRED OF BIBI DRAGGING HIS HEELS

[Rome101]

Settlements should be stopped.The USA asked for a freeze on them ages ago and Bibi ignored them.Bibi does not want talks he choose settlement building.This is just Israel getting nervous b4 septembers voting...I will not be fooled by Bibi tours he is a conman

We tried a settlement freeze of 9 months, and several other settlement freezes before as well. This never worked, so our government is tired of this. In MY opinion, they are retarded for not accepting to freeze again. I am too against the settlements, but saying Bibi ignored is just not true, because we tried many freezes over the years for durations varying between 3 hours and 12 months.
I will not argue that Bibi is not a conman. I know he is. And I think he is completley inappropriate to run this country. And I think they should have re-froze when the US offered a stimulus package for an extended month of freezing. But for them, they had enough with years upon years of freezing, achieving nothing, ref-freezing and trying again and still achieving nothing.

But one thing is for sure. We need to hamper the one-sided vote on a Palestinian country. That won't work but the world seems to be giving it a good chance. In the end, getting independent in September is going to ruin them. They will suffer from every possible aspect, and Israel will probably refuse to keep up the aide it offers. It will eventually drag out to an all-out war with Hezbollah and Hamas leading the offensive, until Egypt and Syria will join, funded by Iran.


@IPA:
Something along those lines, yeah. The only difference between a democratic Jewish state and the standard democratic state is that Jews can get citizenship nearly automatically (they only go through background checks and tests and such, they have a very short waiting line, and that's pretty much it).
Bar the shortened bureaucratic procedure for citizenship, Jews get absolutely no preferences, whether it's in court, in taxes (many if not most Arabs who don't live in the cities are actually exempt from taxes, and most if not all of them are granted eased taxes in several things), on the job market and so on.
I can't seem to think on anything else that differentiates Jews from non-Jews in Israel. So it's really very cosmetic.

[Tiberios]

tom could you please source and qoute the articles you use. Copy pasting an article and then adding your own comment at the end makes it difficult to distinquish what is what and it's annoying to read a wall of text.

[Treize]

@IPA:
Something along those lines, yeah. The only difference between a democratic Jewish state and the standard democratic state is that Jews can get citizenship nearly automatically (they only go through background checks and tests and such, they have a very short waiting line, and that's pretty much it).
Bar the shortened bureaucratic procedure for citizenship, Jews get absolutely no preferences, whether it's in court, in taxes (many if not most Arabs who don't live in the cities are actually exempt from taxes, and most if not all of them are granted eased taxes in several things), on the job market and so on.
I can't seem to think on anything else that differentiates Jews from non-Jews in Israel. So it's really very cosmetic.

Oh in many cases it is, I am not denying that but I would like to add the whole conscription thing and there are many other examples. Not to mention the national symbolism: flag, anthem, coat of arms and the hebrew name of the country.

What the issue is here is the concept in itself. The concept of a state with a legal 'Jewish Character' or atleast that would be the best way to describe it don't you think?

There are two main objections here and number one is that it is the land of Palestine that we are talking about here, a land home to Jews (Ashkenazim/Sefardim/Mizrachiwhatever/Ethiopian/Jemenites/TheOnesWhoNeverLeft, all subgroups), Arab Palestinians, Bedouin Palestinians (a distict group), Druze Palestinians, Armenian Palestinians, Circassian Palestinians, Assyrian Palestinians, Samaritan Palestinians (or what's left of them), these people and recent (post-1948) immigrants.
And the thing is most of these people(s) lived there before the vast majority of Jews so how can it be that the state they live in has a 'law enforced Jewish character'? That can't be right in my opinion. And they never actually wanted this, it was enforced upon them, upon those who where not terrorised/forced into Jordan&Co.

And two, having a certain people (Jews see themselves as a nation) made more or less dominant by law, merely symbolic or not is just plain stupid. Imagine any other country, especially a 'Western' country, doing such a thing. There would be an outrage, and rightfully so because that's borderline apartheid. Even if symbolic, and that's not what I would call the situation in Israel.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Great move Israel. Hamas cant really say anything now if they reject this...

[irontaino]

The ball is in Hamas' court, hope they can stop being a bunch of nutjobs at least for a second.

[MathiasOfAthens]

The only prerequisite here is that Hamas recognizes Israel... truly this is the start of a new beginning.

[PointOfViewGun]

The only prerequisite here is that Hamas recognizes Israel... truly this is the start of a new beginning.

That perquisite beats the purpose of negotiations though.

[Their Law]

That perquisite beats the purpose of negotiations though.

Not really, the negotiations have never been for the recognition of Israel, rather the recognition of Palestine and the borders between the two. Kind of hard to negotiate when each of the sides refuse to recognise the other. I do not think it unfair to ask for Hamas to recognise Israel if it wants Israel to reciprocate.

That said, i'm extremely sceptical of this, Israel has been unreliable at best when it comes to negotiations and it's pretty clear that the current administration doesn't hold negotiations high in their priorities. There's no real evidence to say that this has changed in recent weeks.

[MathiasOfAthens]

That perquisite beats the purpose of negotiations though.

How so? What you mean it beats the purpose of negotiations? Are you saying they should negotiate on what it will take to recognize Israel? That the recognition is the only thing Hamas has that Israel wants? Recognition does not mean they cant still negotiate on future borders or settlements.

[xcorps]

How so? What you mean it beats the purpose of negotiations? Are you saying they should negotiate on what it will take to recognize Israel? That the recognition is the only thing Hamas has that Israel wants? Recognition does not mean they cant still negotiate on future borders or settlements.

No, he's saying that no matter what efforts Israel makes it won't be enough. The anti Israel crowd ignores the fact that the destruction of Israel is in the HAMAS charter. It's a little harder for Israel to ignore that, though.

Yousif al-Zahar of Hamas said in his sermon at the Katib Wilayat mosque in Gaza that "Jews are a people who cannot be trusted. They have been traitors to all agreements. Go back to history. Their fate is their vanishing."

Why should this be a concern to Israel?

Sheik Yunus al-Astal, a Hamas legislator and imam, in a column in the weekly newspaper Al Risalah in 2008 discussed a Koranic verse suggesting that "suffering by fire is the Jews' destiny in this world and the next." Astal concluded "Therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews."

There's no reason not to negotiate with this guy.

"We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" stated Hamas leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza on Friday January 2nd 2009

Just a peace offering.

In a sermon aired on Hamas' Al-Aqsa television, cleric Yunis Al Astal stated, "Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam.
"I believe that our children, or our grandchildren, will inherit our jihad and our sacrifices, and, Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them"
He maintained that Rome would become, ""an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread though Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, even Eastern Europe"

You can see that HAMAS really is just a misunderstood entity. They just want peace and flowers, long hair and hippie free love.


By the way, Dark Lord Seth...Just how hopefull are you that the last quote here will see fulfillment in your lifetime? I mean, you must support it and all, since Israel is the bad guy here.