Consulate of Silius and Poplicola - 481AVC

[Nota']

How many cities will we conquer in a few months, not many I would say, certainly not enough to fully test a law. And if the law can be so easily overturned then why have it as a law at all? I think we should see it as a guide line to senate policy, from which we can add or subtract clauses at will to fit the situation.

OOC: And it removes one thing to talk about in YATS.

[CK23]

"Senator Scaeva you are suggesting then that this does not become a law, but merely a guideline to future conquests and rebellions?" Imperious inquisitively questioned the Senator.

[Winter]

Lepidus stands

I must stand against this measure. In the future, there is no telling how far away we may need to send our legions. We cannot have the business of command and control of a conquered people delayed by a tiresome trading of messengers to and from Roma!

[Bjorn]

Good Aurelius, the motion is made exactly to stop such delays. You will see in one of the later articles that it states that in a situation where the need of haste and swiftness arives, the Consul would have power over the lives of those people. Without this Law, we would have to decide the fate of every single city, which could take up a great deal of time, precious time that the Legions could not have lost. Cornelius felt disconfortable in argueing with a friend in the Senate. But he felt that Aurelius did not fully understand what the Law was ment to do, so he wanted to explain to him so that he could have a better insight on which to arguement on, and, hopefully, agree with Cornelius.

[Winter]

Aurelius turns

But it is those very provisions that render this law useless. There are no parameters that determine what constitutes a need for haste - it seems that the determination is still up to the Consul or commanding magistrate. The Consul is at liberty to decide whether or not a situation is deserving of our attention, yet our attention only seems necessary when our will is at odds with the Consul. If the point of the law is to establish a check on the authority of the Consul to determine the fate of the people they conquer, then the law is rendered null by the Consul's right to decide if this check applies.

It is best that we continue to rely on our Consul's judgement, and the judgement of their co-Consul, in these matters. It is of course still the Senate's prerogative to give advice to the Consul regarding territories conquered under his command. I believe our purposes are better served in this way, rather than introducing a new and confusing layer of law.

[Bjorn]

Aurelius' argument seemed sound to Cornelius, and he agreed with his head.

Yes, maybe we could use these articles not as laws, but, as was before sujested, as guidelines in the right form to act in this kind of situation. Would you agree?

[Winter]

Perhaps, though I consider most of these self evident. Rather, the Senate would be better served in defining guidelines based on our individual wars. Should the Senate deem it necessary to urge the Consul to act in a manner conflicting with these guidelines in the future, it would have to contradict them anyway, rendering them forever moot.

[Bjorn]

So in the end there is no way to make the proccess of trialing and punishing our enemies more effective, swift and just... Said Cornelius, the cold fact saddened him, but it was what it was. The laws could not be put into practice, and he did not see another way to better the current form of judgement.

[Winter]

"War is not a clean business, unfortunately, and we must put our trust in the men we chose to hand the imperium. However, let us never think it is not our business to issue instructions or advice to our magistrates."

[CK23]

"I believe that effectively closes that issue. Is it agreed that the Consuls have the say in the matter but the Senate could advise otherwise?" Faustus eyed both Lepidus and Cornelius.

[Bjorn]

I agree in this. The Consuls should be given the power to decide on this matter. But we of the senate would act as their advisers.

[Merula]

Marcus is severly disapointed, the whole idea had been dropped without even being reviewed by the whole Senate, he says coldly...

I am saddened Senators, that this matter has been disregarded without so much as a halfhearted exchange of pleasentries, I believed that the law would have stopped the exploitation and abuse of the supreme magistrates power when conquering these settlements.

I think further that the law would only have been needed for the beggining of our expantion for, in case you haven't noticed Senators, we were nearly destroyed, yes i said it, destroyed some years ago by that bastard king from Epirus! That law would have helped solidify our expansion in the near future, and as our lands grow maybe it will not be needed, as our fledgling Res Publica would by then have firm ground to stand upon against any threat.

But, he sighs, if it is the wish of the Senate that this matter be overturned, I am not in a position to argue, though I believe there was so much more to discuss...

Marcus sits again... 'We will have to be very careful who is voted Consul from now on...'

[Maiar93]

The Praetor looked around, now sure that that this had been agreed.

Very well. Now, one last thing before we are ready. Now, that Southern Italy is soon under control, where do we expand next? Perhaps the rich lands of Greece, their flourishing ports and big cities? Or the uncivilized North, clearing the threat of the Northern barbarians?

He continued with his deep voice:

I believe that we should first prepare for the war in North. Our relations are not the best, and the warmongering barbarians may attack us at any given time in their lust of loot.

[Merula]

Marcus looks to the Praetor,
I agree with your notion of expansion Corvenus, I have heard from a friend in Arretium of an increase in Boii raids across the border, none that have been too severe, but it can not be tolerated in any case!

I believe we should annex the Boii town of Bononia, if only to sure up our northern borders from further threats.

[Maiar93]

Flavius looks around the Curia

I agree with you here, Atrius. Bononia? Yes, it probably is the start and end of those raids. Our duty is to defend our allies, that is what we agreed to when they submitted to us.

His voice comes louder, stronger, and more balanced.

And i am ready to take this task myself.

[Jingo Eugene]

Crispus stands and says,

"Flavius, I am no expert on the wealth and such of cities, but how could the Boii cities to the north of us be any more of a safety issue than the Greeks across the Ionian? All the Greeks would need to replicate a Pyrrhus-type invasion is a boat. And the Athenians have plenty of those. So, I suggest strengthening the northern Boii border against invasion and taking on Greece, their immense wealth and splendor will be a boon in the conflicts to come."

[CK23]

"Crispus, you would also be spreading us very thin. We barely have two legions and you want to send a Legion across the sea to what?" Imperious questioned, his military thinking had taken over and he was upset that someone could ask to send a Legion to their deaths quite possibly. "If anything, we need to secure all of Italia and then we can do so. The Boii settlement will provide us with a border and launching point for destroying those foolish barbarians."

[Kubrick]

Marcus Sempronius had been quiet for a while, but as an ex-member of the Military Tribune he realized the dangers of invading Greece. Two legions, split by water, extended over such a vast terrain. It would be madness. Marcus rises.

'Gentlemen! Some of you seem to be interested only in extending our landmass and wealth! For that is all I can think of when one suggests to invade Greece! I honestly ask the Senators suggesting this, how well did you think about this? The sea's are roaming with pirates, the Greek cities have very powerful ships and we yet have to discover the art of making a heavy vessel. But, let's just imagine for a moment we make it across the sea. Alive on the Greek mainland, there we meet Pyrrhos, who probably is fighting with another fearsome nation, Macedonia, the true heirs of Alexandros. Then the united city states under the banner of Koinon Hellenon and several free city states. Do you think any of those nations will tolerate it if one Roman legion enters Greece? And even though I trust our highly skilled soldiers and commanders I do however doubt that a single legion can defeat the enormous armies of Pyrrhos. That, my fellow Senators, is madness.

Instead of worrying about land and wealth, both of which we got plenty, we should worry about the safekeeping of our friends in the north. The Boii are no longer respecting our authority in the area and as mentioned by other Senators, it is our duty to assist them. A legion must march on to Bononia while another legion guarantees the safety of the southern region. Greece is something we should not worry about, Pyrrhos is no longer a threat, nor are the Greek city states. We Romans are a peaceful people and we should do our utter best to be as peaceful as possible. The Greek city states should be our friends. I clearly remember that suing for peace with Pyrrhos and acquiring friendly contacts with other Greek states was one of our goals before the saddening death of our dear Consul, may he rest in peace.'

Marcus sighs and returns to his seat.

[Bjorn]

I agree with Sempronius. An attack on Greece is not only unjustified, but also inpracticle. It would be a suicide mission. We should concentrated our attacks on those who are actually harassing and harming Roma's allies. Bononia should be our next target, so that we may put an end to the raids and carnage made by the Boii of those lands. Let us show them the light of Roma!

[War lord]

May I remind you,Senators,that our "Two Legions" are dangerously under strength?Our total force combined is less then the garrison of Bononia alone,never mind the armies of Macedon,we should build up our forces while we have no direct threats on our borders.