Daughter of the former prime minister of Malaysia condemns Sharia

[Ummon]

Marina Mahathir is an author, newspaper columnist and social activist, a Muslim, and the daughter of a former Prime Minister of Malaysia.

No cheer for Muslim women

By MARINA MAHATHIR

In 1948, one of humankind’s most despicable ideas, apartheid, was made into law in South Africa where racial discrimination was institutionalised. Race laws touched every aspect of social life, including a prohibition of marriage between non-whites and whites, and the sanctioning of “white-only” jobs. Although there were 19 million blacks and only 4.5 million whites in South Africa, the majority population were forced to be second-class citizens in their homeland, banished to reserves and needing passports to travel outside them, even within their own country. It was only in 1990 that apartheid began to crumble and South Africans of all colours were finally free to live as equals in every way.

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The rest can be found here: http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/stor...&sec=lifefocus

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

What we see as "Sharia" today is a compilations of laws and regulations from the 7th to the 10th centuries by 5 different schools of scholars. They're man-made laws just like democracy, communism, capitalism, etc and has it's drawbacks.

Anyway, here's an intersting fact. Morocco's king ammended the family law in his country to increase the rights of women when a few hundred women came out to protest. As a result of that, millions of women took to the streets in Morocco to revert back to the old law. Ignorance? Utter stupidity, if you ask me. These people are made to believe that the Shariah is their religion, which is not true. The Shariah is guidelines based on certain principles and are explained by 10th century scholars and should be subject to concensus-ammendments, modernization.

I agree with the Malaysian PM's daughter. The psuedo clerics and 'intellectuals' in most Islamic countries don't know anything about governance, jurisprudence, nation-buliding, law & order and modernization and their version and interpretation of a legal system must be rejected and suppressed even if the blind majority wants it.

[Perikles]

Sharia law to me shows the mentality of Islam today. I f Islam wnts to be viewed a s aserious world religion it must change its attiude towards women. I can't believe that in 21st century women are made to act like 2nd class citizens and are treated like objects. Women are still stoned to death if they commit adultery in some places. Women in Moroco are blinded by faith and are ignorant to the world around them if they did not want 'freedom'.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Sharia law to me shows the mentality of Islam today. I f Islam wnts to be viewed a s aserious world religion it must change its attiude towards women. I can't believe that in 21st century women are made to act like 2nd class citizens and are treated like objects. Women are still stoned to death if they commit adultery in some places. Women in Moroco are blinded by faith and are ignorant to the world around them if they did not want 'freedom'.

Islam is not a person nor is it a body like the Catholic Church, therefore, it cannot reform itself. The problem is that most Islamic countries only came out of colonization less than 60-70 years ago. It takes time for nations to evolve. I don't believe it's a religious issue. How long did it take European countries after being independent nations to give women the vote? It took a few hundred years. However, with a shift in thinking, it's gonna take only a few more decades for women to get more rights.

Having said that, most Western, especially American, views on women and their status in Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Malaysia, Egypt, etc is very biased. The majority of women in urban areas work, study and share equal rights with men. Almost all middle-class and upper class girls go to schools and colleges and later on, work.

I can equate this Western bias with one we have here in Pakistan. A lot of people here believe that there's no family system in the West - children 'kick their parents out of their lives', 'all women have multiple affairs' and 'all young people drink, have sex all the time and have no moral values'. They are all incorrect but a lot of people here believe them to some extent.

[AngryTitusPullo]

If I'm a law abiding person, why should I care what law it is ? If I don't steal, why should I be afraid of the authority cutiing my hand ? If I don't commit adultery, why should I be afraid being whipped or stoned (?)

Syariah, civil or whatever terms all are just a manner of implementation. It all comes base on the 10th commandments. Murder is a sin, how we convict a murdered (if proven guilty) is up according to our implementation of the law. Whatever law we choose, for example murder is wrong, or sin even if we use Civil American law, UN law, Syariah, common law...

So what's the big deal with it ?

Our common civil law now for example. A person who robs maybe get a jail term of 2 years. After he got out he has 50-50 of either going to rob again or turn a new leaf.

I believe whtever law we use, if it's practical and it stops crime then it's a good law. Maybe if the US uses syariah law the the prisons there wont be highly populated as of now. Maybe.

[Ummon]

If I'm a law abiding person, why should I care what law it is ? If I don't steal, why should I be afraid of the authority cutiing my hand ? If I don't commit adultery, why should I be afraid being whipped or stoned (?)

Syariah, civil or whatever terms all are just a manner of implementation. It all comes base on the 10th commandments. Murder is a sin, how we convict a murdered (if proven guilty) is up according to our implementation of the law. Whatever law we choose, for example murder is wrong, or sin even if we use Civil American law, UN law, Syariah, common law...

So what's the big deal with it ?

Our common civil law now for example. A person who robs maybe get a jail term of 2 years. After he got out he has 50-50 of either going to rob again or turn a new leaf.

I believe whtever law we use, if it's practical and it stops crime then it's a good law. Maybe if the US uses syariah law the the prisons there wont be highly populated as of now. Maybe.

If a law considers men and women, and different groups of men, differently, if it is based on violent punishments of non-criminal acts, and most of all, if it is a relic of the middle ages, it surely should be spurned and abolished. Show me a criminal under this law, and you will show me a victim of human folly.

On the other hand a supporter of such law, doesn't really inspire my trust. Really really.

Having said that, most Western, especially American, views on women and their status in Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Malaysia, Egypt, etc is very biased. The majority of women in urban areas work, study and share equal rights with men. Almost all middle-class and upper class girls go to schools and colleges and later on, work.

I can equate this Western bias with one we have here in Pakistan. A lot of people here believe that there's no family system in the West - children 'kick their parents out of their lives', 'all women have multiple affairs' and 'all young people drink, have sex all the time and have no moral values'. They are all incorrect but a lot of people here believe them to some extent.

The fact is, the prejudice of muslims of westerners is not entirely false, just as the prejudice of westerners on muslims is not entirely false. Sinners and fools both. :wink:

[ErikinWest]

The problem is that most Islamic countries only came out of colonization less than 60-70 years ago. It

Really?? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, Morocco (was a protectorate), Saudi Arabia, Oman (was a protectorate), and Yemen. All these countries were either independent or a protectorate. Syria, Lebanon, and Jordon were controlled by the Ottomans which weren't a European power.

Erik

[Denny Crane!]

I can equate this Western bias with one we have here in Pakistan. A lot of people here believe that there's no family system in the West - children 'kick their parents out of their lives', 'all women have multiple affairs' and 'all young people drink, have sex all the time and have no moral values'. They are all incorrect but a lot of people here believe them to some extent.

They have quite a lot of truth in them to.

Peter

[Ummon]

Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, like Iraq, were controlled by western colonial power for a very short time. Between the two world wars, that is.

[Aemilianus]

Well, to answer the last couple posts-

Israel has only been independent since the end of World War II. Personally, I don't see any Israelis blowing themselves up or cutting people's heads off on tape. The Arab world has several problems with it, Sharia definitely being one of them. Another one is the massive oligarchy running most of those countries, keeping a disproportionate amount of wealth. Impoverished people will look to any kind of a savior they can find who will get them out of the poorhouse. In Germany it was Hitler (blame it all on the Jews), in Russia it was Lenin (blame it all on the Czar), and in the Arab world it's becoming Osama bin Laden (blame it all on America, cause America's the reason you can't get a job). These impoverished Arabs see Western success and believe we're keeping them down, and urged on by idiot clerics (their equivalent of Pat Robertson, except these guys have influence) they commit crimes and cause trouble in the world. The way to fix this is to somehow find a leader who can redistribute the wealth and delegitimize the clerics, allowing countries to modernize their laws.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Well, to answer the last couple posts-

Israel has only been independent since the end of World War II. Personally, I don't see any Israelis blowing themselves up or cutting people's heads off on tape. The Arab world has several problems with it, Sharia definitely being one of them. Another one is the massive oligarchy running most of those countries, keeping a disproportionate amount of wealth. Impoverished people will look to any kind of a savior they can find who will get them out of the poorhouse. In Germany it was Hitler (blame it all on the Jews), in Russia it was Lenin (blame it all on the Czar), and in the Arab world it's becoming Osama bin Laden (blame it all on America, cause America's the reason you can't get a job). These impoverished Arabs see Western success and believe we're keeping them down, and urged on by idiot clerics (their equivalent of Pat Robertson, except these guys have influence) they commit crimes and cause trouble in the world. The way to fix this is to somehow find a leader who can redistribute the wealth and delegitimize the clerics, allowing countries to modernize their laws.

Israel = American dollars, established, educated masses. The Saudi kings care more for their throne than they do for their own people. However, having said that, economically, Arab countries are not doing bad at all - the problems are social and cultural. Even before Islam, the status of women in Arabia was different from what it was in Europe. The problem is that Muslims and Westerners alike confuse cultural traditions with religious traditions.

Really?? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, Morocco (was a protectorate), Saudi Arabia, Oman (was a protectorate), and Yemen. All these countries were either independent or a protectorate. Syria, Lebanon, and Jordon were controlled by the Ottomans which weren't a European power.

Erik

Iraq = British occupation after WWI. Prior to that, Ottoman rule for centuries.
Afghanistan = ..... Soviet occupation, anyone? Post-Soviet withdrawal wars.
Egypt = Under Ottoman and then European occupation until after WWI.
Saudi Arabia = became independent only after WW1
The other Arab countries were still occupied and were not independent.