Revolts in the Sorbonne

[MoROmeTe]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4795648.stm

It seems the good, old, anti systemic, rebellious ideas of the French youth are not dead. A good 38 years after May 1968 (thanks, Roman) they are at it again. The reason is a law that makes it easy to fire young employees.

What do you think? Is it right for an under represented group, like young people in this case, to rebbel against a decision, made by the ruling elite, which disadvantages them?

[Last Roman]

It seems the good, old, anti systemic, rebellious ideas of the French youth are not dead. A good 38 years after May 1986 they are at it again. The reason is a law that makes it easy to fire young employees.

I think you mean 1968

And it's always been easy to fire young employees here in the states. Those French have no idea how good they have it when it comes to jobs (2 hour lunches... )

[Ummon]

This just shows how widespread is in Europe, the feeling that rights are more important than duties. Though the measure taken by De Villepin (yes, De Villepin) was extreme.

[Tom Paine]

This just shows how widespread is in Europe, the feeling that rights are more important than duties. Though the measure taken by De Villepin (yes, De Villepin) was extreme.

Rights in some cases are more important. The right to equality is more important than the duty of citizenship as citizenship is dependant on equality.

[Ummon]

There are no rights without duties. Duties and rights have exactly the same importance, infact. Only, they are treated differently because they're not the same thing.

[Tom Paine]

There are no rights without duties. Duties and rights have exactly the same importance, infact. Only, they are treated differently because they're not the same thing.

If one hasn't got one of the two why accept the other, which is the problem here.

[Ummon]

If one hasn't got one of the two why accept the other, which is the problem here.

Because if one doesn't accept duties, he cannot have full rights.

[Tom Paine]

Because if one doesn't accept duties, he cannot have full rights.

If he doesn't have the rights why fulfill the duties?

[Count of Montesano]

I guess it's hard for Americans to relate to this story since we don't really see anyone has a RIGHT to employment.

We have laws protecting workers from physical harm but pretty much everything else is negotiable and dependent on your job skills - from health benefits to pension to vacation time. Oh, and unless you're with a union job or a sports/movie star there is absolutely no job protection. Many young Americans would KILL for 2-year contracts even if there were loopholes where they could be let go for poor performance.

But back to the story at hand. First of all, it seems the French government overreacted. I'm amazed it took the French police almost a week to stop young Muslims burning down large sections of Paris but only two days to storm a peaceful sit-down protest at the Sorbonne. Was this a case of reverse racial profiling? (we can crack white students over the head anytime we like but we don't want to appear racist in the eyes of the world for beating up Muslims)

But I also believe students can jump the gun and blow minor problems out of proportion when it comes to protests. My own university, U of Washington in Seattle, made headline news when the student senate protested a new memorial for alumni who were Medal of Honor winners. The papers had a field day interviewing students who said "we don't want to support Bush's war" and "why should we honor murderers who invade other countries for no reason?" In reality, all of the alumni being honored had served in World War II. Classic case of students overreacting, which I'm sure is also true for the French students. The new laws will undoubtedly help them get their first jobs and build a career.

[Sidus Preclarum]

Many young Americans would KILL for 2-year contracts even if there were loopholes where they could be let go for poor performance.

except that, in the present case, they could be let go even despite awesome performance, with absolutely no justification needed.

[Count of Montesano]

That's also pretty much standard in America. You may have some recourse for being fired for no reason, but the company can still let you go for no reason through "downsizing."

[Sidus Preclarum]

but that's illegal in France.

[nicoviard]

those "students" occupying universities are nothing more than far left activists manipulated by communist teachers and civil servants. They burned ancient greek volumes of unestimable value and destroyed various furniture and equipments. They deserve nothing but being removed by force and then being sent to jail.
I am totally fed up with it and i'll now vote for Le Pen in order for the real France to come back.
i want socialism eliminated.

[Elu Barcino]

those "students" occupying universities are nothing more than far left activists manipulated by communist teachers and civil servants. They burned ancient greek volumes of unestimable value and destroyed various furniture and equipments. They deserve nothing but being removed by force and then being sent to jail.
I am totally fed up with it and i'll now vote for Le Pen in order for the real France to come back.
i want socialism eliminated.

Fine, vote for Le Pen. Have fun in a neofascist hell-hole if he wins, though.

[Ummon]

Simply a matter of quality of one's personality. Mediocre, weak men always think of themselves first.

[Tom Paine]

Simply a matter of quality of one's personality. Mediocre, weak men always think of themselves first.

Almost all men think of themselves first.
The fact is, the idea of thinking of another before oneself is almost an anathema to most people... and of course, I repeat the question, if duties are rights why should one without rights have duties equivalent to one with them?

[Ummon]

Because in truth, the fact that rights are not recognized, is not remedied by not recognizing those of others, while obviously, duties remain in place even if rights are not upheld. Two mistakes don't make one right.

[Tom Paine]

Excuse me? The fact is they are not not recognising the rights of others so much as refusing to uphold duties which despite your belief is in fact contingent upon the upholding of their rights...

[Ummon]

There is contingency only if you justify mistake with mistake. There are peaceful, constructive ways of protesting. Like hunger strike, for example. Only, they require discipline...

[Tom Paine]

Refusing to eat? Hm. Maybe refusing to work... and a picket line. But I fail to see how that would help, and I fail to see how occupying a university is any worse than what you suggest.