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  1. #1

    Default OT: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    I think that not many people truly have a notion of how powerful an undead invasion is... if it truly goes as I picture it, then I seriously doubt that the humans will put up much of a resistance.

    First, we have the Others themselves, practically unbeatable in melee unless by a very special type of material, which, almost no one knows about. It's going to be a slaughter against any army that dares face them in an open battle. Then we have the wights themselves, and that's the question, the true might of the Others. Now, look at it this way, winter is coming, a winter never seen since the Long Night. Lots of people are going to die, either by starvation or cold, in a land already torn by the War of the Five Kings, with possibly another one coming (the Three Queens that LF mentioned). The Others already have a TON of wights I bet, from all the killing they've been doing to the wildlings all this time, and now it's like Christmas for them, the wildlings have been defeated, they are all spread out, confused and disorganized, yet all in the same location more or less. Plus all those corpses from the battle, skirmishes, etc, it's a wight-feast. Then, assuming the wall goes down and they really invade, who's gonna stop them? As they move south, they will destroy any initial forces they encounter due to unpreparedness, they will have a huge amount of fresh corpses to raise as they pass, dead from the winter. Each enemy casualty is another wight. And now let's talk about the wights. They don't feel fear, so they can't rout in battle. They don't need to sleep, they don't need to eat, they require no supply trains, no rest, no morale, nothing, they just go forward, with their cold hands and superhuman strength (yeah, they turned a NW guy's head around completely) arrows, swords, are nothing to them, only fire can kill them. Now imagine, armies of 50-100 thousand are referred in the books. Soldiers requiring food, training, soldiers hailing from all sorts of place in a way that those places still maintain a reasonable "civil" population. But the Others don't need especially trained soldiers or equipment or supplies. They only need dead bodies, no matter if they are women, men, farmers, nobles, weak, strong, old, children, doesn't matter, as long as it's a dead body. We are talking about whole populations here, all of them moving as one with supernatural strength. It's going to be a supernatural army guided by supernatural creatures of ice mounted in giant ice spiders numbering HUNDREDS of thousands easily or more. And as they advance south, and as they fight battles and conquer castles and cities, their numbers will rise. I really don't see how they could be stopped, except by something really drastic like Dragons or everyone uniting and using obsidian or some prophecy of a legendary hero coming true. And even then, what? Apparently the last time humans won with the help of the Children of the Forest, but they are gone. Let's just hope now that Bran, Coldhands and the Three-Eyed-Crow really are up to something, something that will allow the humans to strike at whatever the Others have as a "commanding centre", and stop the invasion dead in it's tracks, because, otherwise, there's no way in the seven hells they are going to win by miltary strength alone.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Im assuming that Jon, if it is indeed him like we all assume, will stop the Others above the wall and there will still be danger because they have to defend the whole wall from the wights who can go through it and then somehow bring it down. I agree that if the others get through the wall everyone is completely ed. Im also assuming that Jon will have the help of dragons thanks to Dany




  3. #3

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Humans always kill Zombies !!!
    Ash from Evil dead, will drop from a vortex and defeat them !!!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    But....Humans can organize, Zombies are dumb ! Kill the heads, desorganize them !
    Dragons burn zombies etc...


    Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

  4. #4
    Double A's Avatar person man
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    I imagine the cavalry will come at the very last minute to help Jon hold the Wall. And by cavalry, I mean dragons. And then Jon and Dany will sweep south and conquer everyone who opposes them. If they could beat the Others, they could beat anyone. Because they're that awesome. And Dany has dragons. Oh, and Mongols and the best spearmen evar, but who really needs all that when you have dragons?

    (I hope everyone realizes that it's fruitless to speculate whenever GRRM is involved)
    Jon had taken Donal and Benjen’s advice to heart: Sam may be fat and pathetic, but he is still a member of the watch, and one of the few black brothers who isn't a rapist or thief. (out of context, this sounds ridiculously racist)
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  5. #5
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    yeah, i bet the time the cavalry arrives, it hasnt to go far....like, fighting others in dornish passes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Yeah well I started this thread also as an attempt to discuss the Others and the possibilities of the plot of the Night's Watch.. I just hope that there is really an invasion that severly damages everything before being grinded to a halt.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Speaking of the "long night", I've never heard any convincing arguments about how the human race survives winters that can last for a decade. The technology of the world is high medieval, which means crop yields are barely enough to feed the population and have enough grain to replant the next year. Presumably, hunting can still go on but if snow piles up "over a hundred feet tall" as old Nan said (hell, even if it's 50 feet...) how can animals forage to stay alive ? And, in any case, hunting certainly can't provide for a continent-wide population. Fishing ? I suppose it might help but getting the fish to communities hundreds of miles inland would be next to impossible in winter. So, back to my original question. How does the human race even survive a decades-long winter, even without an invasion from the Others ?..

  8. #8
    Lord of Lost Socks's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by gapper4 View Post
    Speaking of the "long night", I've never heard any convincing arguments about how the human race survives winters that can last for a decade. The technology of the world is high medieval, which means crop yields are barely enough to feed the population and have enough grain to replant the next year. Presumably, hunting can still go on but if snow piles up "over a hundred feet tall" as old Nan said (hell, even if it's 50 feet...) how can animals forage to stay alive ? And, in any case, hunting certainly can't provide for a continent-wide population. Fishing ? I suppose it might help but getting the fish to communities hundreds of miles inland would be next to impossible in winter. So, back to my original question. How does the human race even survive a decades-long winter, even without an invasion from the Others ?..
    Easy to explain. In their world plants are more cold resistant than in our world. They're just not the same plants that we have.

    And if all other explanations don't suffice: Magic.

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  9. #9

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Well, it is often stated how hard such a winter is.. Even if it`s a short one. In the shorter and warmer winters i can imagine that one is still able to grow some crops in dorne or the southermost lands of the tyrells. Maybe they also import food from the free cities.




  10. #10

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordinquisitor View Post
    Well, it is often stated how hard such a winter is.. Even if it`s a short one. In the shorter and warmer winters i can imagine that one is still able to grow some crops in dorne or the southermost lands of the tyrells. Maybe they also import food from the free cities.
    Hmmm...possibly, but you still can't feed the entire population if most of your territory is covered in dozens of feet of snow and ice. And how do you pay for imports when your entire economy has essentially covered up ? Methinks this is one that we, as fans, have to simply take on faith

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    That's the point, they almost didn't survive. And that's why, even 8000 years later, it's still very present in everyone's minds, yet everyone seems to be forgetting abuot it, focusing themselves on their own wars. At least the high lords I can imagine always getting food from somewhere, but the common people, they're screwed.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Like Blackfyre said... The winters are dangerous and only the strongest survive.

    On the matter of imports from across the narrow sea: I guess they would loan them the food, and receive the payment later. They are businessmen after all.




  13. #13

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...oes-winter-go/

    Assuming the quotes from Martin are accurate here it would seem that a normal winter would not hit the south of Westeros that hard in comparison to the North which would be severely hit, I expect that it is areas like the Reach in the South which are the main grain producing regions in Westeros anyway so the North would in theory be able to supplement their stored harvests with imported grain. How they pay for it is another matter obviously.

    Expect the Long Night will be a lot more extreme though, snow in Dorne for the first time etc etc.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    I can remember that I read somewhere that in the Reach they could still harvest and sow crops in the winter more or less like it was still summer. In the long winters ( where the Others didn't came out to play) the Reach became Westeros pantry.

  15. #15
    Double A's Avatar person man
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    I think part of the point of the Long Night is that people won't have enough food.
    Jon had taken Donal and Benjen’s advice to heart: Sam may be fat and pathetic, but he is still a member of the watch, and one of the few black brothers who isn't a rapist or thief. (out of context, this sounds ridiculously racist)
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  16. #16
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    well, we all know Martin, so i'm sure dragons will fight the Others, but i'm pretty not sure the result.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    well, we all know Martin, so i'm sure dragons will fight the Others, but i'm pretty not sure the result.

    Im thinking undead wight-dragon with others on the back sending waves of cold at everyone.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    Im thinking undead wight-dragon with others on the back sending waves of cold at everyone.
    no, no, no... George cant do that, please, no. Its like copying Dragon Age or simply using that evilish deus ex machina

  19. #19

    Default Re: OT: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    they will just reunite all the possible warriors they might be able to reunite, march to a narrow pass that blocks the other's movement, and throw tones of flaming things, refined alcohol drinks (the ones that burn), throw also boiling oil, dried plants, or meet them just outside a forest and burn the whole forest...

    my basic idea is that they will make a BBQ party with all the westeros armies invited.

    finally, a ghost of eddard stark will fight in duel with daenerys dragons, and the middle e... Westeros will reunite under the warg wolf flag.

  20. #20
    Double A's Avatar person man
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    Default Re: The Long Night (Spoilers)

    Do Others have archers? Because if they don't, I'm fairly certain they'll be about as effective as ice cream against Drogon.
    Jon had taken Donal and Benjen’s advice to heart: Sam may be fat and pathetic, but he is still a member of the watch, and one of the few black brothers who isn't a rapist or thief. (out of context, this sounds ridiculously racist)
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