Awareness of Georgia - please check this

[Badnercalabrese]

alright...there is such tension in Geogia, sadly it doesn't get much media support...so nobody knows how serious things are and how they could get...the presence of Russian and American troops alone makes it big news...I've read that WWIII probably starts with this
alright so this was a long article...i'm copying and pasting what i thought stands out the most...

!!!!Moscow Sacrifices Armenia to Destroy Georgia!!!!!
Asim Oku, AIA Turkish and Caucasian section

Samtskhe-Javakheti map
Russia continues to kindle nationalist moods among Armenians of Samtskhe-Javakheti in Georgia. The purpose of Moscow is to shatter and weaken Georgia as much as possible, and for the sake of this the Kremlin is ready to sacrifice its only ally in the Caucasus - Armenia. As for Armenia, the conflict with Georgia over the Armenian enclave is fraught with political disaster.

Russia seeks ways to exsanguinate Georgia, and asserts its efforts almost openly. Until now Yerevan has succeeded in preventing these plots, but today the situation in Samtskhe-Javakheti could easily become uncontrollable. The consequences of this can be tragic not only for Georgia, but also for Armenia, which Putin calls "the most reliable partner of Russia." Today it sounds, like a mockery…

[Habelo]

Errr, why would they like to have georgia so much?:S

[Kanaric]

Errr, why would they like to have georgia so much?:S

Stalin comes from their, lol.

It is a large territory that used to be part of the USSR.

[Badnercalabrese]

well i'm not 100% sure, but Georgia and Armenia used to be part of the soviet union...Georgia hated it, they declared independence...Tried to seperate as much as possible from Russia...Try to make their nation a better place, joining with NATO and so on...That ****** Russia off

and something about the location of Georgia blocks communinations with Armenia

it's just messed man

[wilpuri]

I guess, like the case with Ukraine, Russia is unhappy about power changing hands in favour of pro-West governments in their own backyard. Georgia, Ukraine. Isn't there also some Russian enclave in Georgia that has basically been receiving arms from Russia and declared themselves autonomous from Georgia after the velvet revolution (or whatever it was called?)

[IronBrig4]

They can HAVE Georgia, and we'll practically sell them Alabama and Mississippi. We don't want the Deep Southern states anymore. Kidding. :laughing:

Oh wait, you mean the actual country of Georgia? If ultranationalists gained power in Russia, then I'm pretty sure they'd try for it.

[the_mango55]

They can HAVE Georgia, and we'll practically sell them Alabama and Mississippi. We don't want the Deep Southern states anymore. Kidding. :laughing:

Oh wait, you mean the actual country of Georgia? If ultranationalists gained power in Russia, then I'm pretty sure they'd try for it.

I agree with you about Alabama and Mississipi, but why would you want to get rid of Georgia? Then there would be no more Adult Swim! Sell them Idaho or Oregon instead.

[imb39]

OK, can we stop these jokes and remain on topic. Thank you - imb39

[Flavius Silvanus]

But because Stalin was from there, Georgians were treated like Russians and Belorussians, and not like "ethnics". It's great to know the level of racism in the workers paradise.

Also, Georgia was spared almost complete during Stalin's many terrors, because Stalin, oddly, didn't think the Georgians would "stand for it".

I wonder if this anti-Georgian policy could be linked to anti-Stalinism?

[John I Tzimisces]

Bloody Russia.
Were these the lands ceded to Georgia in the early 20's by Armenia so that the Turks and/or Russians wouldn't take it around the time of the battle at Sardarabad?

This is all too good an opportunity for the Azeri's to make a move...

edit: I do not think Etchmiadzin would stand for it if Yerevan attacks Georgia over this. Armenians would be rioting in the streets. Two churches as close as the Armenians and Georgians have no place in battle against each other, especially being islands of Christianity in the sea of Islam!

[Badnercalabrese]

yah it's quite sad to see the new relationship of Armenia and Georgia...i thought these nations were brother nations...But the Armos don't care what happens to Georgia. Georgia is trying to save their own ass, but Armenia doesn't seem to think that's "right"

Anyway the thing that scares me...If, well if Georgia DOES get destroyed...I just couldn't imagine how angry i would be...Personally i love Georgian culture...good history, an amazing language and some of the most beautiful girls on the planet...I'd want to go over and fight for Georgia...But too bad plane tickets would be about 5000, and i'd get killed by my own family before a russian bullet would hit me.

I'd just be really sad to see such a place like Georgia ruined...It could also spark so much...First you got the Armo-Turkish rivalry...I think if Russia invades, Turkey might side with Georgia...So if Turkey sides with Georgia...Armenia will probably attack Georgia form the east...Then the Azeris will have a chance to attack Armenia...And remember US troops have been training the Georgian army since the mid 90's...so they are in Georgia as we speak...Never know what could happen

[Blaven]

I'd just be really sad to see such a place like Georgia ruined...It could also spark so much...First you got the Armo-Turkish rivalry...I think if Russia invades, Turkey might side with Georgia...So if Turkey sides with Georgia...Armenia will probably attack Georgia form the east...Then the Azeris will have a chance to attack Armenia...And remember US troops have been training the Georgian army since the mid 90's...so they are in Georgia as we speak...Never know what could happen

Assuming Russia were to invade and occupy Georgia, I doubt Turkey would do anything immediately. They'd only go to war with Russia if Russia was posing a direct threat to their national security. And in any case Turkey has a pretty respectable modern military that would give the Russians hell. Look at how the Russian military struggled in Chechnya. Imagine them fighting an expansionist war on Turkish soil against 70 million ****** off Turks.

On the whole Armenian-Azeri thing: If Turkey and Georgia become allies in war against Russia, then an Armenian attack on Georgia would be the same as an attack on Turkey, and I think Armenia values its existence a bit too much to **** with Turkey over some "rivalry". Azeris would probably wait to see how the war sways, then pick sides.

This all assuming Russia falls into some ultra-nationalist fervor and decides recreate the ol' CCCP, which I don't think is very likely at the moment. Hell, if Russia were to start a war, they'd most likely be met by a firm pan-Caucasian/Turkish alliance.

[John I Tzimisces]

I don't think violence will erupt between Georgia and Armenia. If anything, its probably clear to the specific leaders of those countries Russia is trying to manipulate them, at the very worst, Armenians would take Russian aggression of Georgia as a threat to Armenian independence, which is practically held sacred...

Dunno about Turkish forces joining that alliance. I don't know about the Georgians, but it certainly wouldn't be welcome with the Armenians...

(Armenian girls are the greatest, tho )

mmph. Turkey's army is an enigma. It can't control the eastern half of the country with all the smuggling and illegal activities, and until NATO started training them they were pretty backwards. Like...one mechanized division out of 14. But we'll see. I'm hoping cooler heads prevail, and everyone gets their land's back in the proper hands. Ahem. Everyone deserves their homeland...

[Blaven]

Dunno about Turkish forces joining that alliance. I don't know about the Georgians, but it certainly wouldn't be welcome with the Armenians...

(Armenian girls are the greatest, tho )

Uh, if you have a big expansionist neighbor that just invaded and occupied another friendly neighbor, than you're gonna take all the help you can get to fight against said expansionist neighbor. Having a personal grudge with possibly your biggest immediate ally over something that happened nearly 100 years ago will land you a nice spot in the new U.S.S.R.

I don't really know where that Armenian girls part comes from, but, uh, yeah...

mmph. Turkey's army is an enigma. It can't control the eastern half of the country with all the smuggling and illegal activities, and until NATO started training them they were pretty backwards. Like...one mechanized division out of 14. But we'll see. I'm hoping cooler heads prevail, and everyone gets their land's back in the proper hands. Ahem. Everyone deserves their homeland...

? Turkey's army is the most modernised in the region, and they have I think the most F-16's in the world behind the U.S. Smuggling and "illegal activities" happen in every country. Besides, that's an issue for regular police forces, not the military.

[RZZZA]

Uh, if you have a big expansionist neighbor that just invaded and occupied another friendly neighbor, than you're gonna take all the help you can get to fight against said expansionist neighbor. Having a personal grudge with possibly your biggest immediate ally over something that happened nearly 100 years ago will land you a nice spot in the new U.S.S.R.

Well, I think the reality is that all these neighboring countries (Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia...) are split politically between accepting Russian dominance and fighting against it...its a hard thing, even when facing seemingly immediate danger, to unanimously decide to resist the invader. Remember, it took long debate between the original U.S. patriots before they were convinced that the course of action was to rise up against the british and fight them on the feild. It could have easily swung either way...there were lots of British sympethizers and weaklings, people who could not commit to the reality of fighting and dying, and sending others to fight and die for what seemed like a hopeless dream.

Turkey's army is the most modernised in the region, and they have I think the most F-16's in the world behind the U.S. Smuggling and "illegal activities" happen in every country. Besides, that's an issue for regular police forces, not the military.

I dunno, a lot of this sounds iffy. Frankly, not to offend anyone, but Russia has ALWAYS outclassed Turkey militarily. Even today, Turkey gets so many Russian tourists that I refer to Turkey as "Russias bathouse". f-16's are old technology already, btw...there are already planes 2 and 3 generations ahead of the f-16, if not more which are not known to the public. Russia's military is questionable but I'm sure they still outclass Turkeys military, even with the corruption and the mothballed equipment.

[RZZZA]

alright...there is such tension in Geogia, sadly it doesn't get much media support...so nobody knows how serious things are and how they could get...the presence of Russian and American troops alone makes it big news...I've read that WWIII probably starts with this
alright so this was a long article...i'm copying and pasting what i thought stands out the most...

!!!!Moscow Sacrifices Armenia to Destroy Georgia!!!!!
Asim Oku, AIA Turkish and Caucasian section

Samtskhe-Javakheti map
Russia continues to kindle nationalist moods among Armenians of Samtskhe-Javakheti in Georgia. The purpose of Moscow is to shatter and weaken Georgia as much as possible, and for the sake of this the Kremlin is ready to sacrifice its only ally in the Caucasus - Armenia. As for Armenia, the conflict with Georgia over the Armenian enclave is fraught with political disaster.

Russia seeks ways to exsanguinate Georgia, and asserts its efforts almost openly. Until now Yerevan has succeeded in preventing these plots, but today the situation in Samtskhe-Javakheti could easily become uncontrollable. The consequences of this can be tragic not only for Georgia, but also for Armenia, which Putin calls "the most reliable partner of Russia." Today it sounds, like a mockery…

Well actually, I've hard claims before of people referring to the Cold War as the third world war. Then, also, the same claims were made of Korea and Vietnam. So now, I disregard all trumped up hype of a so-called "third world war"...its just marketing something that need not be marketed as such.

Also, I dont see how this is America's problem...you mentioned that American troops were present in Georgia? Well thats news to me, it must not be a significant amount of troops, because right now the U.S. administration cant even figuratively tie their own shoes, let alone get involved in new conflicts with Georgians or the Janjaweed, or the Taiwanese or whoever. I mean this honestly, do not look to this administration for help, wait till the next election and then maybe people can start to approach the U.S. government with more seriousness. Right now the state of American politics is such that even Bush supporters are pretty much flocking away from him at this point, after the Dubai ports thing fell through. Don't rely on Bush for any help, dont rely on 2006 America for foreign aid, its not gonna happen.

edit-Georgia is far as hell from the U.S. anyway, cant a closer country take responsability of ensuring the safety of Georgia? Whatever happened to individual countries forging their own alliances instead of always relying on the U.S. or the U.N.?

[John I Tzimisces]

Uh, because if we let Russia bully its neighbors around too much, and a nut like Putin is in Charge, it is entirely possible Russia will become a rather powerful dicatorship. Russia is meddling with all of its neighbors affairs, and its getting worrisome considering Putin is not exactly a man of the most enlightened moral background, considering in addition what happened/happens in Chechnya...

[RZZZA]

Well, what else is new? Russia has pretty much always been meddling with their neighbors. If their neighbors object, then let them beat the Russians through war or diplomacy. I dont see why the west, and especially the U.S. which is in no position to wage any new conflicts, should proactively seek to find trouble in a troubled part of the world...AGAIN. The American people wont stand for anything more than diplomatic and financial support at this point, if the Georgians want to make a deal then I think theyre free to do so...but on some level it takes much more commitment, sacrifice and dedication from the Georgians than it does from the Americans, or any other allies Georgia might seek to find in their struggle....for what sounds like independence to me, right? Georgians want independance? I'm guessing theres a strong movement for independance in Georgia AND armenia and I know there is strong support for it in the Ukraine...so yeah, these countries have long been trying to push off the russian bear from their shoulders....

[John I Tzimisces]

Erm, we are independent, the trouble is staying that way.
The greater point is is that if Putin gets his way, he is definately in a position to turn Russia back into a major superpower, which is dangerous considering, he, well, is a dangerous man. What this guy could be capable of could totally eclipse Saddam or those petty middle eastern tyrants. They don't have nukes.

[RZZZA]

Really? I gotta say, that is the first time I've heard of people speaking of Putin in that way....I mean hes no gorbachov but I'd gotten the feeling like he was a rational reformist, a little scary and mysterious, but generally good for Russia. In all fairness I havent been following Russian politics, you say Putin really is such a terror, you even equate him with Saddam? Wow...As far as I know he doesnt commit genocide of his own people, he does have a strangehold on party politics but hes not really a tyrant, I mean he was elected into power wasnt he? He didnt take it by force, but by popular consent.

edit-or if not popular concent, then by the consent of the former president and party.