Laptop advice

[Simetrical]

I'm moving to Israel this fall and attending a yeshiva there, so I'm going to be ditching my current desktop in favor of a laptop. I want it to be designed to support Linux well, which kills all the conventional choices straight off. I'm not going to be using it for gaming, mostly programming and web browsing and testing web browsers. I don't expect to travel a lot with it, and will probably keep it plugged in 90% of the time, so battery life doesn't have to be great. Likewise, it's okay if the disks are lousy, as long as I have plenty of memory. A decent CPU is a plus.

I'm currently looking at the ZaReason Strata 5330. ZaReason is a small company that makes laptops meant to run Linux, and they have great customer reviews. They're targeted at Linux geeks, and their hardware warranty specifically says their products are still covered if you open them up and mess with the hardware, as long as the defect is their fault and not yours. They even include a screwdriver with every machine to drive the point home.

The non-default options I have configured are an i5 CPU instead of i3, 320 GB instead of 160 GB, and 8 GB of RAM instead of 1 GB, which makes the specs

• 14.5" x 9.75" x 1.25-1.5", 5.25 pounds
• 15.4" screen, 1366x768 pixels
• Core i5-520M
• 8 GB DDR3-1066
• 320 GB 5400 RPM
• Intel integrated graphics

for $1,006. Interestingly, the cheapest Dell laptop I see for these options (15-16" screen, i5, 8 GB RAM) is $1,519. Any ideas on what I should be thinking about here, or other options to consider? I've never seriously used laptops before, only on an occasional basis.

[ROFL Copter]

I've never had a problem putting Ubuntu on any laptop I've owned. As long as you steer clear of Apple and Sony it should be fine.

[Pantsalot]

All of that is quite a lot to ask for quite frankly for your budget..

[Simetrical]

I haven't had much trouble getting Ubuntu to work with hardware, but it's better to be sure in advance, and I'm happier not contributing any money to Microsoft if I don't have to.

(I just looked closer at the Dell options, and it turns out the price difference is because their stock model has lots of extra stuff I don't want, like a real graphics card and an SSD. If I switch the hard drive to a regular one, that by itself makes it the same price as the ZaReason model for considerably better hardware. But a couple hundred bucks extra doesn't bother me that much if I can get guaranteed Linux support and good customer service.)

[GrnEyedDvl]

(I just looked closer at the Dell options, and it turns out the price difference is because their stock model has lots of extra stuff I don't want, like a real graphics card and an SSD. If I switch the hard drive to a regular one, that by itself makes it the same price as the ZaReason model for considerably better hardware. But a couple hundred bucks extra doesn't bother me that much if I can get guaranteed Linux support and good customer service.)

Dell has, or used to have at least, a line of desktops and laptops designed for Linux, specifically Ubuntu. A quick look just brings up this, I didnt dig any deeper and I have never ordered a Linux box from Dell.

Another quick note on batteries, you have to use them once in a while. If all you do is leave it plugged in all the time, you shorten the life of the battery. A couple of times a month or so while its on your desk unplug it from the wall and let it get down to 10% or so and then plug it back in.

[karamazovmm]

Dell has, or used to have at least, a line of desktops and laptops designed for Linux, specifically Ubuntu. A quick look just brings up this, I didnt dig any deeper and I have never ordered a Linux box from Dell.

Another quick note on batteries, you have to use them once in a while. If all you do is leave it plugged in all the time, you shorten the life of the battery. A couple of times a month or so while its on your desk unplug it from the wall and let it get down to 10% or so and then plug it back in.

dell still has ubuntu boxes, however they are not present in the enterprise class hardware

what you said is basically reseting the battery, the process is to once a month drain the battery and then recharge, basically doing a full cycle.

the best thing you can do is to always use the battery up to 20% and then only charge it up to 80%, only enterprise class hardware let you do that (I dont know any programs that enables you to do that).

Its also not advisable to use the laptop without the battery, since its your last line of defense against a power surge

[Simetrical]

Nah AMD support is quite good, I remember asking you how to get things running on ubuntu 1 or 2 years back? And I still run different distros with my AMD gpu, no problems there, specially after the c-state issue was fixed for mobile users

Basic support is fine for all GPU classes, but if you're looking for decent GPU performance on Linux, NVIDIA's proprietary driver is your only option. AMD's GPU driver for Linux doesn't perform anywhere close to its Windows driver. NVIDIA releases basically the same driver for Windows and Linux, and while it doesn't perform as well on Linux as Windows, it's in the same league. (There are open-source drivers these days that support 3D acceleration, but they're still way behind the proprietary ones.)

T520, 8560P, I would look into some dell latitudes. All of those retail around 800+, and can be configured with a i7 2630qm (quad processor and since you didnt say anything about VMs, I supposed you dont run those, so the added instructions of the higher end processors are quite for nothing)

What's the advantage over the ZaReason I was looking at? A T520 with an i5 and 8 GB of RAM looks to cost $1,169, and when I configured 8560P to remove every feature I didn't care about, it was around $1,400 (actually "System price $1,800, from $1,400", whatever that means, but it's a lot extra either way). I'm perfectly willing to consider alternatives, but not if they cost more for no clear advantage.

What I would suggest you to do, since you are mostly going to type on the notebook is to find a decent keyboard, lenovo didnt change it for quite awhile, however dell and HP have, I would look at the envy 14 to give you an impression on how it feels, for the dell, they only have that keyboard on their enterprise class hardware so much harder to find.

I've been told ZaReason's keyboards are good.

I do think that you are going to say that you can buy an external keyboard, and that you would prefer that, but peripherals are a pain to have on the desk, and in the end they are going to be thrashed after you leave.

No, I don't want to have to rely on an external keyboard. I'm more willing to consider an external monitor just because then I'll have two monitors.

Dell has, or used to have at least, a line of desktops and laptops designed for Linux, specifically Ubuntu. A quick look just brings up this, I didnt dig any deeper and I have never ordered a Linux box from Dell.

Reportedly they have terrible support. I've also heard it claimed that they ship Linux machines that don't even boot successfully.

Another quick note on batteries, you have to use them once in a while. If all you do is leave it plugged in all the time, you shorten the life of the battery. A couple of times a month or so while its on your desk unplug it from the wall and let it get down to 10% or so and then plug it back in.

Yeah, so I've heard. Actually, from what I understand about lithium-ion batteries, you should ideally run the battery almost completely down and leave it that way until you actually need it charged. And keep it cold. At least that's what Wikipedia says. Keeping a laptop in the freezer is probably not a good idea, though, even if it will help the battery life. It doesn't sound from the description like letting it discharge a couple of times a month will make much of a difference, if it's charged to 100% almost all the time.

I wonder if it's possible for software to stop the laptop's battery from charging when it's plugged in. Seems unlikely, but that would be a useful feature.

[karamazovmm]

Sim could you fill this one:

General Questions

1) What is your budget?

2) What size notebook would you prefer?
a. Netbook; 10” screen or less
b. Ultraportable; 11" - 12” screen
c. Thin and Light; 13" - 14" screen
d. Mainstream; 15" - 16" screen
e. Desktop Replacement; 17"+ screen
3) Where will you buying this notebook? You can select the flag of your country as an indicator.

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
a. Like:
b. Dislike:

5) Would you consider laptops that are refurbished/redistributed?

6) What are the primary tasks will you be performing with this notebook?

7) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places, leaving it on your desk or both?

8) Will you be playing games on your notebook? If so, please state which games or types of games?

9) How many hours of battery life do you need?

10) Would you prefer to see the notebooks you're considering before purchasing it or buying a notebook on-line without seeing it is OK?

11) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista or Windows 7), Mac OS, Linux, etc.

Screen Specifics

12) From the choices below, what screen resolution(s) would you prefer? Keep in mind screen size in conjunction with resolution will play a large role in overall viewing comfort level. Everyone is different. Some like really small text, while others like their text big and easy to read. Click here for Screen resolution information.

13) Do you want a Glossy/reflective screen or a Matte/non-glossy screen?

Build Quality and Design

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?

15) When are you buying this laptop?

16) How long do you want this laptop to last?

Notebook Components

17) How much hard drive space do you need; 80GB to 640GB? Do you want a SSD drive?

18) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?

I would advise to steer clear from nvidia, they have put optimus in almost all their notebooks, so you are either going to need bumblebee (a modded script, it needs serious tweaks to work) or to have the option to turn off the nvidia gpu (in bios) when you are using the machine, thus killing the gpu use.

[atraps]

A slightly cheaper alternative. I can't really say anything about the company's support or credibility.

[karamazovmm]

another thing you could do is to get the T420 without an OS, or a dell latitude or a hp elitebook, all of those have that option.

However the other specificities are difficult to determine based on what you said

you are programming, what you are doing? does that involve 1 million + lines of code, that you would need a quad core?

and so forth, and you do realize that you can game quite great on laptops too (must say this since you are a member of a gaming forum)

[Simetrical]

All of that is quite a lot to ask for quite frankly for your budget..

I didn't actually say what my budget was, and I found what I wanted for a price I'm okay with, so not sure what you mean.

Sim could you fill this one:

1) What is your budget?
Well, less is better. I'm looking for something that will meet my needs, and I'm willing to spend whatever's necessary. Since I found a laptop I like for $1000, that's probably an upper bound, unless there's something I really want but don't realize I want it.

2) What size notebook would you prefer?
a. Netbook; 10” screen or less
b. Ultraportable; 11" - 12” screen
c. Thin and Light; 13" - 14" screen
d. Mainstream; 15" - 16" screen
e. Desktop Replacement; 17"+ screen

This is going to be a desktop replacement, but a 15" screen should be fine. Bigger might be better, but I don't really know, since I haven't used laptops much. If the small screen really bothers me, I can always get a separate second screen.

3) Where will you buying this notebook? You can select the flag of your country as an indicator.
America.

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
I don't have experience with buying laptops, so I can't say.

5) Would you consider laptops that are refurbished/redistributed?
If necessary, I guess, but I'm not looking to cut corners here.

6) What are the primary tasks will you be performing with this notebook?
Programming, web browsing, e-mail, testing websites in multiple web browsers at once. Those "multiple web browsers" might also include IE running in a VM, so lots of RAM is necessary. The testing might include repeatedly running a JavaScript test suite that takes tens of seconds to finish, so a good CPU is a plus.

7) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places, leaving it on your desk or both?
I expect to mostly leave it at my desk, but sometimes take it places.

8) Will you be playing games on your notebook? If so, please state which games or types of games?
No.

9) How many hours of battery life do you need?
No hard requirements. I expect to mostly keep it plugged in. Obviously, more is better.

10) Would you prefer to see the notebooks you're considering before purchasing it or buying a notebook on-line without seeing it is OK?
Buying online is okay, I don't want the hassle of having to physically go someplace.

11) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista or Windows 7), Mac OS, Linux, etc.
Linux.

12) From the choices below, what screen resolution(s) would you prefer? Keep in mind screen size in conjunction with resolution will play a large role in overall viewing comfort level. Everyone is different. Some like really small text, while others like their text big and easy to read. Click here for Screen resolution information.
There's no link, so I can't click. But I probably don't care very much. I tend not to notice this kind of thing. My current desktop resolution is 1280x1024 on two ancient 19" CRTs, at least one of which is dying.

13) Do you want a Glossy/reflective screen or a Matte/non-glossy screen?
I don't know the difference. Again, though, I tend not to really notice things like this.

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
No, not even slightly.

15) When are you buying this laptop?
Soon, like within a month, or preferably less.

16) How long do you want this laptop to last?
I dunno. At least a year or two. More is better. My current desktop is years old. Like the graphics card is a GeForce 8600 GT, and I bought that while it was current.

17) How much hard drive space do you need; 80GB to 640GB? Do you want a SSD drive?
Really I could probably do with 80 GB, but I'd like to keep backups and things, so 320 GB would be reasonable. I don't need an SSD or even a fast drive: battery life isn't so important to me, and I expect my workload to be almost entirely in-memory.

18) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
I barely ever use optical disks, and I burn them even more rarely. So I don't really care.

I would advise to steer clear from nvidia, they have put optimus in almost all their notebooks, so you are either going to need bumblebee (a modded script, it needs serious tweaks to work) or to have the option to turn off the nvidia gpu (in bios) when you are using the machine, thus killing the gpu use.

For my needs, an integrated Intel GPU sounds like the best bet. If I were going for a real GPU, it'd have to be NVIDIA, because they're the only ones with real Linux support.

A slightly cheaper alternative. I can't really say anything about the company's support or credibility.

Thanks for the suggestion. The price is almost the same, so I'm not seeing any big reason to go for it.

another thing you could do is to get the T420 without an OS, or a dell latitude or a hp elitebook, all of those have that option.

They're not guaranteed to work well with Linux, though. Also, I don't see an option to get no OS.

you are programming, what you are doing? does that involve 1 million + lines of code, that you would need a quad core?

I do occasionally compile million+ line projects like Firefox or Chromium, yeah. But that's not mostly what I'm doing. I could use fast CPUs for test-cases I write, like this. Often I run the same lengthy test-case in four browsers at once, so quad-core would actually be useful. Sometimes the tests I'm running take thirty seconds or more per run, and I have to do them repeatedly as I make adjustments. So a killer CPU isn't necessary, but I want one that's decent.

and so forth, and you do realize that you can game quite great on laptops too (must say this since you are a member of a gaming forum)

Yeah, I know, but I don't game anymore and don't plan to start again anytime soon. I'm just fine with an Intel GPU if it's cheaper. And yes, I realize that asking people about laptops on a gaming forum and specifying I want Linux only is a bit silly. I'm mostly just looking to see if there's anything I'm missing, since I haven't gotten a laptop before. I have a pretty good idea of what I want.

[karamazovmm]

Nah AMD support is quite good, I remember asking you how to get things running on ubuntu 1 or 2 years back? And I still run different distros with my AMD gpu, no problems there, specially after the c-state issue was fixed for mobile users

I would simply go for enterprise class hardware, the reasons:

more durability

better support (specially since you are going to israel so international warranty is needed)

they are more stable, and run quieter

Here are good choices:

T520, 8560P, I would look into some dell latitudes. All of those retail around 800+, and can be configured with a i7 2630qm (quad processor and since you didnt say anything about VMs, I supposed you dont run those, so the added instructions of the higher end processors are quite for nothing)

I wouldnt update the gpus options, since you arent going to need it. I would also go on a limp and say that the intel is going to be bit lesser than the 8600 that you have right now, but Im not that confident (meaning it can be better altogether)

There is a good review on anandtech about the R850 from toshiba, although I dislike the keyboard immensely (its the same thing for the hp and dell ones)

with the quad, you can have easily 3+ years of use if you are on the road constantly, since you are going to leave at home most of the time, I would go on a limp and add more 2 years.

Too bad that lenovo brought down the no OS option (it was listed before as FreeDos), I configured a machine with the i7 2630qm and came about 1150, no screen upgrade and the 4gb memory option.

What I would suggest you to do, since you are mostly going to type on the notebook is to find a decent keyboard, lenovo didnt change it for quite awhile, however dell and HP have, I would look at the envy 14 to give you an impression on how it feels, for the dell, they only have that keyboard on their enterprise class hardware so much harder to find.

I do think that you are going to say that you can buy an external keyboard, and that you would prefer that, but peripherals are a pain to have on the desk, and in the end they are going to be thrashed after you leave.


I will also add that linux support on those machines is quite good, and it plainly just works, specially with the more known distros, putting haiku on it might be doable but with tweaks being needed (and yes I know its not linux) or dropox, just like in the desktop world

Sim another thing, there is a current promotion on the lenovo site, and there is also a coupon, if Im not mistaken, its GOOGLESHOP (strange name huh?) if that isnt the coupon google is your friend, at least it added me on facebook!

[karamazovmm]

thinkpads have magnesium roll cages for added durability, they have the best keyboard in the industry, no one will dare say otherwise, and as I said try it out.

this video might entertain you the idea of the thinkpad sturdiness


Dell enterprise class support is very different from the consumer class, its on par with what alienware offers. which is quite good.

the zareasons use a compal chassis, which while they are somewhat sturdy, they dont have near the quality of a thinkpad.

have you tried the latitudes (dell) or the elitebooks (hp) that I mentioned to you? those are also great. You have to remember that what people say about the OEMs dont apply here, these are enterprise class hardware and service

Sim you are still confusing the mobile world with the desktop world, there are disadvantages when it comes from drivers from both companies

[Simetrical]

thinkpads have magnesium roll cages for added durability, they have the best keyboard in the industry, no one will dare say otherwise, and as I said try it out.

Durability is not a requirement of mine. I've been told ZaReason has good keyboards too.

Dell enterprise class support is very different from the consumer class, its on par with what alienware offers. which is quite good.

I'm not that likely to need support, so this doesn't justify spending multiple hundreds of dollars extra.

the zareasons use a compal chassis, which while they are somewhat sturdy, they dont have near the quality of a thinkpad.

"Quality" in what sense?

have you tried the latitudes (dell) or the elitebooks (hp) that I mentioned to you? those are also great. You have to remember that what people say about the OEMs dont apply here, these are enterprise class hardware and service

What do you mean "tried"? As I said, I don't intend to go down to a computer store to physically try it out, I have better things to do.

Sim you are still confusing the mobile world with the desktop world, there are disadvantages when it comes from drivers from both companies

There is only one proprietary Linux driver for NVIDIA and one for ATI. As far as I've been told, the ATI driver for Linux has much worse performance than the NVIDIA one across the board. If you have specific evidence to the contrary, please share it. But this is a nonissue for me since I don't care about graphics performance.

[karamazovmm]

quality in the sense of fit and finish, choice of materials, durability, engineering, that feat on the video is quite a testament of what build construction means...

While compal is the largest manufacturer in the world for laptops, the difference in quality between consumer and enterprise class is quite there. No cracks, no quirks, no flex.

Sim you are basing what you know on desktops to laptops, I dare you to try to replace a mobo from a inspiron 15, first its quite difficult to disassemble the thing, then to find the part another nightmare, and this goes on. There is few things that arent custom in a laptop, ram, HDD, cpu and wi fi cards.

I would advise you to get the better support from the enterprise class, when you get a cto thinkpad or another from its class, you already pay for the support, which would cost more if you did in the consumer world, from what I see the standard warranty is still 3 years international, against 1 from consumer based hardware.

I know that you wont use the laptop on the go everyday, however get one thing that lasts. People are still using z thinkpad series, and those are 5-6 years old, if Im not mistaken. I have to change this year my laptop, its a consumer class, one hinge is broken, there is tons of flex on the keyboard, when I hold the chassis on the extremities using both hands (like when you carry a tray), it bends, even closed. This one is 2 years old. My old lenovo is 5 years, got it in 2006 from a trip to NY, its still rocking, and its quite sturdier than mine, both are plastic, and the lenovo dont even have the magnesium roll cage.

What Im trying to say is that, regarding software you are more than qualified to solve, however on the hardware side, Im not so sure


What you can do is to get aftermarket upgrades, like RAM, 2x 4gb sticks are less than 80 bucks, OEMs charge usually 200+ for that upgrade.

[Simetrical]

I'm well aware that I don't know much of anything about hardware. That's why I made this thread. But while you've told me lots of good things about the laptops you recommend, you haven't told me why they're better than the one I've picked, particularly given the higher cost. On the other hand, I both got a personal recommendation of ZaReason from someone I know, and found all the online reviews I saw to be uniformly positive (including some from well-respected sources), so I'm not seeing any problem with them.

[karamazovmm]

I have already mentioned the difference in build quality, keyboard, the difference regarding support, and I will now mention the difference regarding power. Basically you want me to dirty talk the zareason, otherwise there is no point in stating again what I said.

The zareason still use the older compal chassis that is already in the market for several years (If I remember correctly something around 4-5), it was quite good for the time it was produced, right now, its not up to what we expect, in terms of portability, expansion and durability. There is flex present in most of the body, and the keyboard is not up to even dell standards (which are quite low)

The battery life is going to be quite poor if you go the quad core way, since they are still using the lynnfield low power quads (yes intel got the lynnfield arch from the desktop wolrd and shoved it in notebooks, with extreme lower clocks due to the TDP restraints). However the sandy bridge is quite different, for one the battery life of the quads is up to dual core arrandale line up, that came with switchable graphics. for 2 the power of those new quads is quite different, the lowest of the quads(i7 2630qm), can give the extreme processor (i7 940xqm) a whooping, most of the time, while the other being quite similar. You do realize that the extreme editions for notebooks are with a higher TDP 55w against the usual quad TDP of 45w.

I know that you said that you arent on the go always, however to have the notebook with close to 10h of battery life against another that will last 2-3 hours at its best, its quite an improvement to say the least.

Since I dont know where you are going, the kibutz are quite a ''hostile'' environment, with sand, dust and all the other stuff getting into your laptop. I would basically scorch the interwebs for coupons on the lenovos or some enterprise class hardware, the x220 could be had for 800 with the i7 cpu, which with all the upgrades netted for a 1500+ machine, giving it almost a 50% discount.

Basically you are paying that much less because they are using old tech.

I also understand that you are a smart buyer, if not you wouldnt be asking, however be advised that the gap of enterprise class and consumer is quite wide, and I hope that you dont break anything otherwise shipping to the US is going to take a while + the service time + shipping back = 2-4 weeks of downtime period.

while using the larger OEM warranty you are going to have a tech come to your house and be done with it. Its usually the next day type of deal.

I would also advise you to post a question on the notebookreview.com forums, there is a section named what notebook should I buy, ask what you asked here, they have a large linux community.

[Simetrical]

I have already mentioned the difference in build quality, keyboard, the difference regarding support, and I will now mention the difference regarding power.

You have not provided any specific reasons for me to believe that ZaReason is any worse than the models you suggest in this regard.

Basically you want me to dirty talk the zareason, otherwise there is no point in stating again what I said.

If you're going to persuade me, you have to give specific reasons for why I should believe you. Otherwise I'm not going to take your word over anyone else's (e.g., the word of the person who uses a ZaReason laptop and recommended it to me).

The zareason still use the older compal chassis that is already in the market for several years (If I remember correctly something around 4-5), it was quite good for the time it was produced, right now, its not up to what we expect, in terms of portability, expansion and durability. There is flex present in most of the body, and the keyboard is not up to even dell standards (which are quite low)

Portability and durability are not an issue for me. I don't know what you mean by expansion, but I expect the hardware to last me long enough for my purposes. How do you know about the keyboard, have you used it? On my desktop, I'm currently using a Logitech keyboard that I bought for about $15, IIRC. I don't have any complaints about the keyboard on my parents' Toshiba Satellite U305, either.

The battery life is going to be quite poor if you go the quad core way, since they are still using the lynnfield low power quads (yes intel got the lynnfield arch from the desktop wolrd and shoved it in notebooks, with extreme lower clocks due to the TDP restraints). However the sandy bridge is quite different, for one the battery life of the quads is up to dual core arrandale line up, that came with switchable graphics. for 2 the power of those new quads is quite different, the lowest of the quads(i7 2630qm), can give the extreme processor (i7 940xqm) a whooping, most of the time, while the other being quite similar. You do realize that the extreme editions for notebooks are with a higher TDP 55w against the usual quad TDP of 45w.

As I said, battery life is not such a big issue for me. The differences have to be enough for me to be willing to pay extra and get hardware that's not specifically selected for Linux compatibility.

I know that you said that you arent on the go always, however to have the notebook with close to 10h of battery life against another that will last 2-3 hours at its best, its quite an improvement to say the least.

The standard T520 looks like it comes with a six-cell Li-ion battery, same as the laptop I'm looking at. If I want to pay for an extra source of power, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to use it with any laptop out there. Googling "laptop external battery" yields a whole bunch of results that just plug in to your laptop's AC adapter. You're not getting ten hours on the battery that's built into the laptop, you're going to need an external one no matter what, and those aren't specific to a laptop brand.

But really, I don't normally go more than half a mile from my house. The longest I expect to ever use it on battery power except once in a blue moon is while commuting. So this is not really a big issue for me.

Since I dont know where you are going, the kibutz are quite a ''hostile'' environment, with sand, dust and all the other stuff getting into your laptop. I would basically scorch the interwebs for coupons on the lenovos or some enterprise class hardware, the x220 could be had for 800 with the i7 cpu, which with all the upgrades netted for a 1500+ machine, giving it almost a 50% discount.

Saving a few hundred dollars is not my primary interest here, particularly not if it involves a lot of work. I'm looking to buy something I personally will not regret. If there are problems with the hardware that I think I'd actually notice and care about, that's the sort of thing I'd like to know about, but you haven't pointed any out yet.

I'm not picky here, I don't care if everything is top-quality. I just want something that works well enough for me. I'm not likely to even notice things like keyboard quality.

Basically you are paying that much less because they are using old tech.

Probably, but old tech often gives you better value for the price. I don't need everything up-to-date. My current desktop's CPU is an X2 5000+, for instance, which was released in 2006. An i5-520M is not going to be much worse than that, so it's good enough for me.

I also understand that you are a smart buyer, if not you wouldnt be asking, however be advised that the gap of enterprise class and consumer is quite wide, and I hope that you dont break anything otherwise shipping to the US is going to take a while + the service time + shipping back = 2-4 weeks of downtime period.

It's always a risk when you rely on only one computer.

while using the larger OEM warranty you are going to have a tech come to your house and be done with it. Its usually the next day type of deal.

In Israel too?

I would also advise you to post a question on the notebookreview.com forums, there is a section named what notebook should I buy, ask what you asked here, they have a large linux community.

I've learned enough to conclude that I'm not going to regret it too much if I go with this one. That's good enough for me. I'm not interested enough in computer hardware and don't care enough about it to spend still more hours researching before buying.

[karamazovmm]

I have as I said a lenovo from 2006 that is still rocking and with my current gf, she dropped that thing so many times... the point is I really miss the keyboard, specially more since Im a touch typist. Depending on the logitech keyboard they are quite good, if that serves anything I use the cheapest mouse microsoft can provide, its less than 5 dollars, and its one of the best that I have, I bought it 2 years ago, however my presentation mouse is pure crap and I bought it for 60 dollars

Dell has a tech center in Iraq, so that troops deployed with dells latitude ATG laptops are serviced on site.

lenovo also has facilities around the globe, including israel, and I do believe its on site, here in brazil we have it, I dont know why a richer country wouldnt.

The battery number of cells are not a meaningful measure, the enterprise class hardware have lower power consumption while using the same hardware, for example a T series lenovo is about less than 8wh, so yes the 10 hours battery life is not only real, but its about as good as you go with 15'', for the t420 you can get 15hours, with the 9 cell, and with the x220 you can get more than 20 hours.

the difference in terms of power is too great to pass, to be able to surpass an extreme edition processor with 10w more of TDP is not a basic feat, it nets around 40-50% improvement in terms of power if you compare the i7 2720qm to the it 720qm. You keep your hardware for a long time, get one thing that will last more.

I only needed 5 min of googling to find several coupons, up to date or expired

also since that you are going to keep the laptop for a long time, I advise one that you can get parts easily, while that chassis of the zareason has been around for a while, it had many iterations, since core duo, core 2 duo, arrandale. Compal stopped producing that, so parts availability is only going to fall.

other options:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-e5520/fs
http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTER...0AAAEuV4FCFgH6
or go to the T520 without the quad core, since you are considering dual cores


Im going to give you this, you are one though guy to get a sale on, Im going to ask a commission if you go with the lenovo

[Simetrical]

I ordered the ZaReason a day or two ago. Maybe it wouldn't be your choice, but it looks to fit my needs better. Thanks for the advice anyway.