IRA no longer a threat?

[Sétanta]

well some brits seem to think so
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11728305/
I personally doubt this very much

[imb39]

I hope so... but I still distrust them. But I distrust the loyalists too...

[Sétanta]

I hope so... but I still distrust them. But I distrust the loyalists too...

The loyalists are the ones causing the problems nowadays

[imb39]

The loyalists are the ones causing the problems nowadays

The IRA are now a Mafia-esque organisation. It is addicted to crime. I don't trust them. The Loyalists are no loyalists in my eyes. I repeat, I don't trust them. Of course, I'm talking about the paramilitaries aka terrorists.

[Nicholas II]

The PROVISIONAL IRA went on ceasefire in 1994, since then they've contributed little to the 'troubles' save vigilante attacks and several isolated incidents, nothing on the scale of former operations. People who don't live in Ireland tend to get mixed up between the various IRA groups and splinter movements.

For example people generalise and believe that the IRA was responsible for Omagh which would in turn encompass the Provos, however, while an IRA splinter group WAS involved in Omagh it was NOT the provisionals. It was the REAL IRA (A confusing title). However the provisionals tend to get tarred with the same brush as most people outside of Ireland aren't aware of the divisions.

Therefore I fully believe that the IRA is putting its arms beyond use and plans to adopt a politicial agenda. Technically they've been on ceasefire since 1994 so it's not such a leap of faith to believe in the decomissioning.

The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) are the ones holding up the peace process these days. They refuse to share power with Nationalist Sinn Fein and believe that the IRA is NOT decommissing despite evidence to the contrary. The sooner Ian Paisely goes the better.

The main cause of violence in the North these days is Loyalist criminal activites, and constant feuds between the UVF and the LVF etc. Loyalist paramilitaries are notoriously ill disciplined, formed to fight the IRA but end up fighting themselves...

[Yorkshireman]

The main cause of violence in the North these days is Loyalist criminal activites, and constant feuds between the UVF and the LVF etc. Loyalist paramilitaries are notoriously ill disciplined, formed to fight the IRA but end up fighting themselves...

Whereas I would strongly disagree, It depends what side of the fence your on. I see by your profile your from Londonderry , my family are all from East Belfast and don't see why their politicians should sit in government with murderers who want a United Ireland. But that's Ulsters problems in a nutshell, not many people want to give ground.

From a loyalist point of view have the provo's gone away ? Not likely, their still there lurking in the shadows.

[Nicholas II]

Sinn Fein have always expressed their willingness to share power at Stormont. The IRA and Sinn Fein have already given as much ground as they're able. Right now it's up to the Unionists and as I've stated they still refuse to share power. The Unionists asked for decomissioning and they got it, yet still they're stuck in the same deep rooted prejudice. People like Paisely want to ressurect the old Unionist State, well that's not going to happen, the sooner they realise it the better.

The IRA have made the first step on the way foward and the Unionists are repeatedly blocking their path. Anyone with sense can see that the DUP literally have no arguement. They're too hardline to work for a peaceful solution. They demand, demand and demand.. and that doesn't wash well with politics.

They can't keep up their tac of calling Sinn Fein 'murderers', anyone can see that they're just stalling. Sinn Fein are here to stay and they've done a helluva lot more than DUP for the peace process.

Again the IRA always seem to recieve the brunt of peoples attention when they think of Irish Paramilitaries, yes it's true that they've done MANY questionable things which I won't try to justify but the same could be said for the Unionists. The Shankill butchers anyone?

And yes thanks for pointing out Londonderry so subtley, as you said it depends on what side of the fence your on. (And literally here :wink: ) but I think I'll stick to Derry rather than a title imposed by the London guilds.

[Lusted]

Well they announced they were completely disarming a while ago now, so this old news to me. I do believe they are no longer a threat, they seem to want to take political route now instead of the terrorist route.

[Libertine]

I dont trust either tbh. and i think Sinn Feinn is a snakes nest.

[Yorkshireman]

No offence with the bold lettering, your probably one of the only people on here that would get it. I don't deny that Loyalist gangs have comitted many atrocities and in recent years probabley more so than the Republicans but the thread was about the IRA. You obviously can understand why many Unionists don't want to sit down with Sinn Fein/IRA when theres no real proof on the table that every weapon is destroyed apart from the word of two observers that were only acceptable to the IRA.

There are many question marks over the IRA's stand down and Blair allows such incidents as the Robert McCarthy murder and the Northern Bank robbery with their obvious Sinn Fien/IRA involvement to be white washed to appease Republicans and the peace process.

[Nicholas II]

No worries, I'm not so hardline as to take offence at a name. Really though, it's not something I feel too strongly about, I simply prefer Derry over Londonderry, Derry being the origional name, and to be honest (IMO) the least contentious since it is completely ambiguous whereas Londonderry has Unionist connotations.

It's understandable that many Unionist/Loyalists may harbour ill feeling toward Sinn Fein or the IRA, making the concept of moving foward to a peaceful solution seem difficult. However, I think the IRA's move toward decommissioning is all about setting aside the past and working toward the future. Whether or not Sinn Fein are 'murderers' is irrelevant.

Both the IRA and Sinn Fein have expressed a desire to move forward. This desire hasn't been reciprocated, once again Paisely clings to his vision of a ressurected Unionist state. The arguement of the DUP is counter productive, do they want peace or not? I don't think so, thus far they've done everything in their power to block it. Blair and DeChastilan have already confirmed that decommisioning has gone ahead and both being relatively impartial this should be enough for the DUP for at least to consider talking.

As for the McCarthy scandal that was an isolated incident more akin to a bar brawl than calculated murder at least as I understand it. The Northern Ireland bank Raid of 2004 was before the IRA's July statement and as for the recent Ulster bank raid there has been no proof as to whether or not it was the Provisionals.

The whole point really is that it is time for the people of Northern Ireland to put aside past differences and work toward the peace process. The IRA and Sinn Fein have made the first steps, when are the DUP going to follow? :original:

[Sétanta]

Londonderry

Its Derry

[Yorkshireman]

Depends where you come from mate, anyway how can you see from America.

[Sétanta]

Well i know that. And I know because I am Irish-American with strong ties back to Ireland (Cork area).

anyways i read that most of the killings and terrorist activities these days come from the Ulster Volunteer Force and similar groups. Does the British Goverment classify them as terrorists too

[Yorkshireman]

UVF/LVF/UDA/ are all terrorist groups and come under the same sanctions as the IRA, they've been involved in a lot of internal feuds the last few years.

I hope your not one of those Irish Americans who funded the IRA through NOR-AID due to their misty eyed nostalgia for a land they left 200 years ago. Quite ironic that the US government never stopped it, not when you consider their stance in todays War on Terror.

Besides Cork's in the South, nothing to do with the United Kingdom.

[Sétanta]

I hope your not one of those Irish Americans who funded the IRA through NOR-AID due to their misty eyed nostalgia for a land they left 200 years ago. Quite ironic that the US government never stopped it, not when you consider their stance in todays War on Terror.

Besides Cork's in the South, nothing to do with the United Kingdom.

not me. but some of my great grandparents perhaps, back when the IRA only attacked British Military Targets. The US Government doesn't have the power to prevent money from being transfered from its own citizens to Irish Citizens who would use the money to fund the IRA.

[Yorkshireman]

True, and I can understand their sentiments. Ireland arouses violent passions amongst people, no matter what side of the fence their on.

[The Alcotroll]

IRA decommissioning is a lovely idea, and a master-stroke of genius on the part of Adams and McGuinness. It gives them a clear run at the moral high-ground, while conceding the square root of a very small number.

Here is a report from the BBC that details some of the equipment destroyed.

1,000 rifles
2 tonnes of Semtex
20-30 heavy machine guns
7 Surface-to-air missiles (unused)
7 flame throwers
1,200 detonators
11 rocket-propelled grenade launchers
90 hand guns
100+ grenades

During the IRA's terrorist campaign, it got the most use out of Semtex (to blow up civilians at shopping centers), and sniper rifles ()used to murder Soldiers and Policemen at checkpoints).
The Surface-to-air missiles were never used, though according to the BBC source, they once brought down a helicopter with the Machine Guns.

The equipment destroyed, by and large, is suitable for the waging of a semi-conventional war in an urban setting: Assault rifles and RPGs, grenades and anti-air equipment would have been ever so useful if these so-called 'soldiers' came out onto the streets to close with and engage the enemy in order to dominate the battle-space and hold ground.
The IRA stopped doing that sort of thing a long time ago though, because they always lost. Instead they prefer to 'wage war' by sniping at patrols and VCPs, planting IEDs in civilian areas, intimidating opponents through kidnappings, executions and knee-cappings.

What's my point? Simple. The IRA have decommissioned what they have no further use for.

The IRA's most useful asset is the "sophisticated ballistics and engineering skills within the organisation"- the IRA is world renowned for its expertise at making such things as improvised bombs and home-made mortars, out of easily available materials. Skill and experience is not easily de-commissioned.

As for materials, well the London Tube bombers proved how easy it is to get hold of explosives (and they didn't have the network of contacts and sympathisers that the IRA has). Half the scrotes in Moss Side have access to sawn-offs and pistols. I can buy a baseball bat from JJB sports!

For all it's magnanimous de-commissioning gestures, the IRA could resume 'operations' tomorrow.

Please don't bypass the censor - imb39

[Nicholas II]

IRA decommissioning is a lovely idea, and a master-stroke of genius on the part of Adams and McGuinness. It gives them a clear run at the moral high-ground, while conceding the square root of very small number..

Here is a report from the BBC that details some of the equipment destroyed.


During the IRA's terrorist campaign, it got the most use out of Semtex (to blow up civilians at shopping centers), and sniper rifles ()used to murder Soldiers and Policemen at checkpoints).
The Surface-to-air missiles were never used, though according to the BBC source, they once brought down a helicopter with the Machine Guns.

The equipment destroyed, by and large, is suitable for the waging of a semi-conventional war in an urban setting: Assault rifles and RPGs, grenades and anti-air equipment would have been ever so useful if these so-called 'soldiers' came out onto the streets to close with and engage the enemy in order to dominate the battle-space and hold ground.
The IRA stopped doing that sort of thing a long time ago though, because they always lost. Instead they prefer to 'wage war' by sniping at patrols and VCPs, planting IEDs in civilian areas, intimidating opponents through kidnappings, executions and knee-cappings.

What's my point? Simple. The IRA have decommissioned what they have no further use for.

The IRA's most useful asset is the "sophisticated ballistics and engineering skills within the organisation"- the IRA is world renowned for its expertise at making such things as improvised bombs and home-made mortars, out of easily available materials. Skill and experience is not easily de-commissioned.

As for materials, well the London Tube bombers proved how easy it is to get hold of explosives (and they didn't have the network of contacts and sympathisers that the IRA has). Half the scrotes in Moss Side have access to sawn-offs and pistols. I can buy a baseball bat from JJB sports!

For all it's magnanimous de-commissioning gestures, the IRA could resume 'operations' tomorrow.

Well that's the nature of a terroist organisation you see... Guerilla Warfare. A semi-convential war may sound nice on paper but I am afraid that such a war was and NEVER will be possible. The IRA may have had a plentiful supply of small arms, but think of what they HAVEN'T got; Fighter-Bombers, Helicopters, Tanks... Armoured cars, kevlar vests or an abundance of ammunition unlike the British army. So yes they would've lost, so a semi-convential war could never have been an option.

In the long run a semi-convential war would have been more disastorous, the losses in a few months probably would've been more than the number we have had over the 30 year period of the troubles. Civillians would have been caught up also. So really, arguing that the IRA should've done the honorable thing and engaged in open warfare isn't really valid. A guerilla campaign was the only viable option and regretabily people lost out, just like in any war.

I'll not try and justify the methods of the IRA but it's essential that people understand how they came about. Primarily the provo's were formed to protect Nationalist areas from Unionist attacks during the 60's. This -was- an essential role as the predoiminantly Unionist police force was corrupt.

Really, the fact that the provisionals became what they are.. or -were- is through Unionist and British policies such as Internment, deployment of British troops..(which was initally welcomed by nationalists) and events such as Bloody Sunday. I've always considered the Loyalits to have given the IRA the fuel for the fire, events like Bloody Sunday generally didn't reconcile the average nationalist to a peaceful solution.

I think it's an overly pessimistic and cynical view to suggest that the IRA aren't genuine in their decommissioning. It's been so long since progress that Unionists and Nationalists alike should be grasping for any chance at a way forward. However, the Unionists continue to hold up the peace process by refusing time and time again to accept the reports of the impartial inspectors as fact. Of course, a certain amount of caution should be exercised but frankly parties such of the DUP are refusing to let the process go ahead for no other reason than a dream of the ressurected unequality of the Unionist state.

Yes, the IRA can be creative especially in regards to homemade bombs but then again so could I. I don't see the validity of that arguement. The IRA were asked by Unionists to decommission, they did, but what's happened? The Unionists are stalling again. Whether or not an IRA man possesses the skills to make a bomb is irrelevant at this point in time.

The IRA has done as it was asked, the question is; When will the LVF, UDA and the UVF be putting their arms beyond use? Really, they're responsible for far more of the recent violence that the provisionals who have been effectively inactive with regards to bombing and attacks on security personel since 1994.

[Fianóglach]

There will never be a complete peace in Northern Ireland, and it's not as simple as 'the IRA' it's not the IRA who is violent anymorem all they do is rob banks, sell drugs, and pimp ugly hoors from Ardoyne. It's all the wacko Socialists and Communist groups like the INLA and the RIRA (the bastards responsible for my little incident in Omagh) that are the problem. They don't have anything to do with the IRA, they split from them because they didnt agree with the leadership. The IRA, Sinn Fein and Gerry bloody Adams are irrelevant and idiotic. All the hardcore violent Republicans have made their own groups. The Loyalist and Unionist groups are not a threat, they're too busy killing eachother to notice anything that is happening in the real world. and Derry or Londonderry, no point calling it anything if you've never been there. I have, and its nothing special kids. People need to dismiss these romantic Irish ideas from their heads, just feck off and leave us alone. For the first time in years I can walk around east belfast and actually feel somewhat safe, and then you get all these retards from America and the Republic of bloody Cork, waving flags and saying how we Catholics in the North have it so bad. We know how we have it, mind your own business.