Should Germany (or the EU) compensate Spanish cucumber farmers?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

As you all know Germany recently an inexplicably decided to blame imported Spanish cucumbers for the e coli outbreak there and in a number of other European countries. Although they seem to be certain it was from fresh fruit or vegetables, they were wrong about it being Spanish cucumbers. Yet before they corrected their mistake many entire crops were destroyed. Should Germany compensate the farmers for this?

[Thorn777]

Who's Germany?

Ones seen this black guy on Jenny Jones who's name whas Germani though. God I love that show.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Who's Germany?

Ones seen this black guy on Jenny Jones who's name whas Germani though. God I love that show.

fine, die Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

[hellheaven1987]

Yes, since Germany accused Spain without evidences; accuse someone baselessly is illegal afterall.

[kentuckybandit]

The news about this isn't drifting over here as quickly so I don't know all the facts but yes, if Germany did make this accusation baselessly than they should bare some responsibility. The last thing this world needs is more bad blood between developed nations.

[Tankfriend]

As far as I have gathered from the media here in Germany so far, the Spanish cucumbers in question were contaminated with EHEC bacteria - those just turned out to not be the ones causing the current epidemia, afterall. Apparently, the two types of bacteria widely share the same genetic structure, which kept the truth about them hidden until recently, when the genetic structure of the new EHEC bacteria was deciphered in detail and then compared to the ones from the cucumbers. So, if you ask me, the business of alerting the public to the Spanish cucumbers issue was a rash decision, but nevertheless something that appeared to be the right decision under the circumstances.
Now, I have no idea how common these other EHEC bacteria are that supposedly have been found on the Spanish cucumbers, but it at least appears like the Spanish are not entirely free from blame for the issue at hand...

In any case, though, you can be pretty sure that the Spanish are not the only ones that are suffering from the epidemia - most of the time, both before and after the "cucumber discovery", the focus of the media over here lay on vegetables and raw/unprepared food in general, which is a much wider area than just Spanish cucumbers.

[Claudius Gothicus]

As you all know Germany recently an inexplicably decided to blame imported Spanish cucumbers for the e coli outbreak there and in a number of other European countries. Although they seem to be certain it was from fresh fruit or vegetables, they were wrong about it being Spanish cucumbers. Yet before they corrected their mistake many entire crops were destroyed. Should Germany compensate the farmers for this?

Given the current economic/social situation in Spain, and if the cucumbers were truly innocent then yeah. It's not good enough to be torn down by a recession also having to endure wrongful badmouthing of your few exports... not fair.

[DaniCatBurger]

I think health agencies are obliged to give warnings. If someone going to pay then probably Bruxelles.

[Ahlerich]

of course not. germany is a customer that temporarily chose not to buy a product because it was assumed that a epedemic that kills people and spreads quickly came with the product.
should russia compensate the eu for stopping vegetable import?

The news about this isn't drifting over here as quickly so I don't know all the facts but yes, if Germany did make this accusation baselessly than they should bare some responsibility. The last thing this world needs is more bad blood between developed nations.

lets say there is and epedemic in the usa that quite dangerouse and not understan fully by scientiests and people are dying and at one point scientist thought they tracked the root to mexican imported oranges - would you want your country to continue importing and selling these in the usa?
if later its found out that the trace likel wasnt the root of the epedemic, why should there be compensation.

its the duty of a government to protect its citizen, and with new mutations and unknown epedemics i think its better to be save then sorry.

gesus we are trading partners, we didnt buy coke from them mob.

Yes, since Germany accused Spain without evidences; accuse someone baselessly is illegal afterall.

it wasnt baselesly. they were looking for the bacteria causing the pandemic and they found them on spanish cucumbers. its just that the aggressive desease that mutated is not from those bacteria found on spanish cucumbers which is known now but wasnt at the time when they stopped importing. this can happen when you are dealing with a new bacteria/virus/epidemic

in our globalized world pendemics can spread so quickly so thats all reason to be carefull and react quickly. sure if you fire from the hip you sometimes miss but at least you still have a shot.

if anybody the spanish government should comepensate their farmers

[eisenkopf]

Germany? Germany blamed Spain?

That's the way you'd like it to be, because that makes it easier to put blame here and demand money.

Maybe it's the way it was reported in your countries, in which case you should seriously check the quality of your papers. Otherwise, you need to learn to read.

It was the Institute for Food Hygiene in Hamburg that said that three of four positively tested samples were Spanish cucumbers. Of course, this proved nothing, but it is a lead - the only one anyone had at that time. So it was investigated, and it turned out that it was a wrong lead. No governmental action was taken. Of the media reported this widely, and rightly so - the public has a right to know which is the most likely source of the problem.

The spanish farmers had tough luck. Just as the German farmers, who are also shredding vegetables worth millions and have huge losses.

This whining is incredible. Always looking for someone else to blame, always looking for ways to make money. Of course Zapatero is eagerly jumping the bandwagon, and leading it. After the catastrophic election results and public protests he desperately needs something that garners him sympathies with the Spanish.

Geez, how naive can you all be? Seriously, guys.

So to recap: It was not Germany, but one Institute that caused this with a false alarm. Further, also German farmers are hurting from EHEC. Finally, the Spanish government is desperately trying to shift the focuse of the Spanish public away from domestic issues, and sees a great opportunity to become the Knight of Spanish Cucumber Farmers.

If it would't be so sad and another proof in what terrible condition Europe is, it could be fun. Pure satire. Bat alas, it's a tragedy.

[xcorps]

Germany? Germany blamed Spain?

That's the way you'd like it to be, because that makes it easier to put blame here and demand money.

Maybe it's the way it was reported in your countries, in which case you should seriously check the quality of your papers. Otherwise, you need to learn to read.

It was the Institute for Food Hygiene in Hamburg that said that three of four positively tested samples were Spanish cucumbers. Of course, this proved nothing, but it is a lead - the only one anyone had at that time. So it was investigated, and it turned out that it was a wrong lead. No governmental action was taken. Of the media reported this widely, and rightly so - the public has a right to know which is the most likely source of the problem.

The spanish farmers had tough luck. Just as the German farmers, who are also shredding vegetables worth millions and have huge losses.

This whining is incredible. Always looking for someone else to blame, always looking for ways to make money. Of course Zapatero is eagerly jumping the bandwagon, and leading it. After the catastrophic election results and public protests he desperately needs something that garners him sympathies with the Spanish.

Geez, how naive can you all be? Seriously, guys.

So to recap: It was not Germany, but one Institute that caused this with a false alarm. Further, also German farmers are hurting from EHEC. Finally, the Spanish government is desperately trying to shift the focuse of the Spanish public away from domestic issues, and sees a great opportunity to become the Knight of Spanish Cucumber Farmers.

If it would't be so sad and another proof in what terrible condition Europe is, it could be fun. Pure satire. Bat alas, it's a tragedy.

/thread

[hellheaven1987]

it wasnt baselesly. they were looking for the bacteria causing the pandemic and they found them on spanish cucumbers. its just that the aggressive desease that mutated is not from those bacteria found on spanish cucumbers which is known now but wasnt at the time when they stopped importing. this can happen when you are dealing with a new bacteria/virus/epidemic

The problem is that majority of E coli is harmless to human; so saying "I find the bacteria on that food" is pointless since E coli is pretty much on everywhere (including in your body, as certain E coli actually is necessary for human).

Either way, the interesting part is that this new mutant strain would cause kidney failure, which rather bring the point that how the heck a type of bacteria living in digesting system can even spread to kidney first (there are ways, but definitly not about eating cucumbers).

[Adar]

The problem is that majority of E coli is harmless to human; so saying "I find the bacteria on that food" is pointless since E coli is pretty much on everywhere (including in your body, as certain E coli actually is necessary for human).

Finding E. coli on cucumbers means that someone haven't handled them like they should since the presence E. coli requires that someone have been getting on the cucumbers...

And in this case it was not only regular E. Coli but EHEC which releases a Shigella like toxin.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Finding E. coli on cucumbers means that someone haven't handled them like they should since the presence E. coli requires that someone have been getting on the cucumbers...

Liquid animal excrement is regularly used as a fertilizer in most European countries?

[hardrive]

Liquid animal excrement is regularly used as a fertilizer in most European countries?

Sadly cucumbers are also used as sexual toys in Germany. So other sources can't be ruled out... ??

EDIT

[Adar]

Liquid animal excrement is regularly used as a fertilizer in most European countries?

They are but they are treated in such a way that the bacteria in them die. Live bacteria is evidence that something in the process have gone wrong.

[Ahlerich]

germany really needs to be careful now. it seems like as we so willingly handed out money everybody now thinks if they complain and ask for money germany hands out a cheque no questions asked.

[SPECTREtm]

Yup, as you all see helping Greece was one of Germany's larger blunders of the 21th century (so far)

[Adar]

The EHEC bacteria isolated from the Spanish cucumbers are also a quite serious matter that show something is seriously wrong with Spanish food safety (either using unsafe fertilizers or failure in transport) and it is likely that some people got sick by that too. Just far fewer people than when we thought the cucumbers were the only source of EHEC (or supermutant EHEC).

But I am very curious about the source of the new EHEC strain. The fact that it is resistant to some antibiotics makes me believe that have spread among large farms where antibiotics are used to reduce the spread of diseases. Then it have spread into restaurants where some dishes are served less well cooked than others (would EHEC die in air-dried ham?)

I hope that we learn from this and that pre-emptive antibiotics treatment of animals will be prohibited in the entire EU.

[neoptolemos]

Yes, since Germany accused Spain without evidences; accuse someone baselessly is illegal afterall.

If there weren't evidences then probably. But i don't remember something showing the exact source to be found.

The EHEC bacteria isolated from the Spanish cucumbers are also a quite serious matter that show something is seriously wrong with Spanish food safety (either using unsafe fertilizers or failure in transport) and it is likely that some people got sick by that too. Just far fewer people than when we thought the cucumbers were the only source of EHEC (or supermutant EHEC).

But I am very curious about the source of the new EHEC strain. The fact that it is resistant to some antibiotics makes me believe that have spread among large farms where antibiotics are used to reduce the spread of diseases. Then it have spread into restaurants where some dishes are served less well cooked than others (would EHEC die in air-dried ham?)

I hope that we learn from this and that pre-emptive antibiotics treatment of animals will be prohibited in the entire EU.

The source of the bacteria is the top priority for the health services around the EU and not the compensations right now. It must be found how these food contaminated in first place in order to avoid future incidents.