For the Motherland: HOI3 Expansion

[a tw player]

I am extremely excited about this expansion, and it looks like it could well bring out the full potential in what is already an excellent game

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/he...the-motherland - Release date and general details announced

Wargoals/better peace system, battle scenarios (such as operation unthinkable! ), multi-core support, better partisan system, better AI, and many more features...

Who else is looking forward to getting this, or even getting hoi3 because of it?

[TheBromgrev]

Pre-ordered I'm looking forward to using the wargoals system for the HPP, although I'm holding my breath on the AI improvements. PI's AI person prefers to make the AI do things at random and not take into account what's going on (aka the USSR shouldn't build ships when Germany is near Moscow). That's why you get stupid stuff like Haiti researching nuclear bombs and Yugoslavia building battleships and not upgrading infantry techs. I much prefer the HPP AI, which is much smarter.

[Nikitn]

Pre-ordered I'm looking forward to using the wargoals system for the HPP, although I'm holding my breath on the AI improvements. PI's AI person prefers to make the AI do things at random and not take into account what's going on (aka the USSR shouldn't build ships when Germany is near Moscow). That's why you get stupid stuff like Haiti researching nuclear bombs and Yugoslavia building battleships and not upgrading infantry techs. I much prefer the HPP AI, which is much smarter.

rubbish. it isn't possible to code the AI into researching certain techs. From what I know anyway.

[TheBromgrev]

rubbish. it isn't possible to code the AI into researching certain techs. From what I know anyway.

To an extent you're right, as the HOI3 game engine is based on randomness. However, what you can do is give certain specific techs and tech folders weights, so the AI will be much more likely to research, say, the 4 infantry weapon techs than it would the militia techs, or focus on the bomber tree and neglect the fighter tree. ICE and the HPP also have certain techs that can only be activated via event (land doctrines for HPP, faction and nation-specific techs for ICE), so you can use that as another way to manipulate the AI. You can also influence the AI to do things such as research the fastest techs. If you know how to set starting techs, theories, and practicals such that the game engine won't override what you put (the HPP modders know how, the others don't), you can use the theories to tell the AI where to focus. For example, if we want the UK to focus on BBs and DDs, we can give it max theory and increase practicals a little for those two types, which makes techs related to those ships research faster than other tech types. Or, we can do things like tell France to focus on its navy while at peace (which is what really happened; go look up the Richelieu battleship), but then focus on other areas when at war. We can tell the USSR to focus on tanks in the beginning, then focus on militia when its brigade count drops to a certain level.

Another example of telling the AI to do things based on context is Germany. We can tell Germany's AI to focus on tanks and planes at first, then after the Bitter Peace fires or Vichy is created (or any other condition we want to use), we can tell Germany to switch from land-mode to navy-mode, and build up its navy for Sealion and to attack the US. The official AI used by everyone but the HPP mod doesn't do that, but instead rolls a dice and goes "I guess I'm going to research a carrier doctrine even though I don't have any carriers and am landlocked", or decides to research the nuclear techs despite only having 6 IC.

So, while you're correct in that we can't tell the AI what exactly to research, there's a lot that can be done to limit its choices and prioritize what you want it to do. There's still some randomness involved, but PI's AI modder doesn't put any effort into turning dice rolls into something more logical or take into account the current circumstances, like the last two examples I mentioned.

[a tw player]

Indeed, I'm actually "ADEE1" off the forums and I'm an avid HPP gamer

[Kamikaze470]

Really looking forward to it, I am very excited for it's release with the new Fronts & Allie fronts system among with the other things they're planning

[HissingNewt]

So what is the price on this expansion? $15? I'll be buying it anyways, but it's odd that they haven't said that yet.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

I wish people would stop posting here. Every time I see it my heart skips a beat and I wonder if it's out yet.

[HissingNewt]

I wish people would stop posting here. Every time I see it my heart skips a beat and I wonder if it's out yet.

I think it's out on the 28th.

[Kamikaze470]

I think it's out on the 28th.

Correct, FotM game page lists it as June 28th.

[TheBromgrev]

So what is the price on this expansion? $15? I'll be buying it anyways, but it's odd that they haven't said that yet.

In the official forum today, it was announced that the price was $20 and 20 Euros for Europeans. Europeans got shafted on that one.

[HissingNewt]

In the official forum today, it was announced that the price was $20 and 20 Euros for Europeans. Europeans got shafted on that one.

Seems like Europeans and Aussies get shafted on all game prices. Thanks for the price, though.

[a tw player]

In the official forum today, it was announced that the price was $20 and 20 Euros for Europeans. Europeans got shafted on that one.

I assume that means it's going to be £20 here, if so we're mega-shafted

[TheBromgrev]

I assume that means it's going to be £20 here, if so we're mega-shafted

Well, given how low the dollar is compared to Pounds and Euros, depending on where you get the expansion you may be able to pay with dollars instead. Most banks and credit card companies will convert currencies for a fee, so for Europeans it *may* be a better idea to buy from a site selling in dollars. You should check with your bank/credit card company first though to see if they'll do the conversion and what the fee will be before trying it. Then you should check the retailer you want to get the game from (Steam, GamersGate, etc.) to see if you can buy in a different currency. While that's a hassle, it might save people quite a bit of money even after the fees.

[Qitbuqa]

I'm pretty sure you won't be able playing a game that you bought for dollars from account, that belongs to Steam region where the game should be bought in euros. I've seen smartass guys who bought it for dollars from Russian region as games are mega cheap there, but Steam wouldn't allow them to play the game (TWS2 to be specific).

[HissingNewt]

I'm pretty sure you won't be able playing a game that you bought for dollars from account, that belongs to Steam region where the game should be bought in euros. I've seen smartass guys who bought it for dollars from Russian region as games are mega cheap there, but Steam wouldn't allow them to play the game (TWS2 to be specific).

This game doesn't have to be registered with any service as far as I know, so it should be fine.

[Qitbuqa]

IDK, I'm running all my games via Steam and I know they are rather strict with this whole regional thing.

[Nikitn]

Hmm, those are actually quite clever design-decisions. Are you sure that Lothos guy didn't interoperate it into his new AI mod? I mean, the weight thing? And you can't put specific "weight" on techs for specific nations, can you?

I don't think the A.I. prioritizes the techs that are the fastest to research, at least not to a significant degree. Are you sure about this?

Also, don't tell me you refuse to share your knowledge with other modders? Why does only the "HPP team" know how to assign practicals and theory for nations at start?

Anyway, is it possible to use your mod's AI script on vanilla? I can't see why not, after-all you guys didn't add stuff like new units or new types of theory & practicals?

[TheBromgrev]

Hmm, those are actually quite clever design-decisions. Are you sure that Lothos guy didn't interoperate it into his new AI mod? I mean, the weight thing? And you can't put specific "weight" on techs for specific nations, can you?

I'm 100% sure, because our AI modder took a look at his latest work and said all he did was tweak the production AIs for various countries. I'm sure Lothos knows how to adjust the AI the way we've done, but I have no idea why he hasn't done so.

I don't think the A.I. prioritizes the techs that are the fastest to research, at least not to a significant degree. Are you sure about this?

Yes, because that was our first method, but it also led to some odd stuff, so we changed it to be a combination of weights and the fastest tech.

Also, don't tell me you refuse to share your knowledge with other modders? Why does only the "HPP team" know how to assign practicals and theory for nations at start?

Simple. No one asked us how to do it I've mentioned that it's possible in the ICE and AS forums, as well as in a thread about modding questions, but no one asked me how we did it, or if they did, they felt it was too much work (which it isn't...). If I offer to tell them how and they don't take me up on the offer, then that's their loss.

The problem with setting starting techs is that the game engine will determine what it thinks the starting techs should be, and if yours are lower it will override them. This caused no end of headaches when I was trying to adjust China's naval techs to include the 2 light cruisers it built, because the game engine kept giving China higher infantry and destroyer techs than I wanted them to have. The fix is to add in a requirement to all techs for a flag to be set. Then, have some country (we use the rebels) fire a decision that sets the flag. Because the techs can't be researched when the game loads, the game engine won't try and tinker with our desired setup, but the decision will later set the flag and allow the techs to be researched again, thus allowing us to bypass the game engine's stupid override.

Anyway, is it possible to use your mod's AI script on vanilla? I can't see why not, after-all you guys didn't add stuff like new units or new types of theory & practicals?

Probably not, although I can't say for sure. We added 1 new practical to represent a nation's shipbuilding knowledge, and we redid almost all of the techs. I think the tank and artillery tab is the one that's closest to the original; everything else has seen a complete overhaul. We also made changes to the diplomatic AI when it comes to decisions, because we can tell the AI whether or not to fire a decision in the LUA files, and that may cause problems in a vanilla game. You can try it if you want, but make sure to backup your original files first so you can revert back to the original AI if ours breaks your game. I've never tried using our AI files in vanilla (or have even played vanilla in over a year), so I can't say if they'll work or not, although my guess is that they won't work.

[Nikitn]

Well, the tech weighting and so on aren't in the AI scripts files, are they? And I don't think that the AI prioritizes techs that have low difficulty, I think it prioritizes techs for which it has the most practicals & theory.

anyway I tried ur AI script just now and I noticed a 30% performance decrease over vanilla.. Not very good