Is This Mercy Killing?

[Poet]

My mother died on 22nd of May. She was hospitalized on 14th of May and she was a patient of Hepatitis C. Her liver was 80% damaged but cause of death was intestinal leakage. She felt pain for 2 to 3 weeks before being hospitalized but neither did she nor we realized that pain and swelling of belly was not due to liver problem but intestinal leakage.

She never let her being hospitalized voluntarily, she had some psychological fear from being hospitalized and from being operated.Like last year this time also we hospitalized her without her consent. That was most expensive hospital of Lahore and they are famous for the care they give. After some tests they came to know that her recent pain was not because of liver damage but because of intestinal leakage. They clearly told us that we had to chose between a drainage operation or her slow and painful death. We allowed the operation and they successfully drained all fluid, but they again told us that it was very hard for her to survive from the effects of that leakage as that results as snake venom and a vicious cycle had started working.

The same day she was shifted to Medical ICU and that was the last time I talked with her. This makes me sad that the last words which I heard from her mouth were, "Where were you all, I was calling you for hours". After that day she lost her consciousness. Her lungs and kidneys were also added to affected organs after that leakage and this made it impossible for her to survive any more. Doctors didn't show us hope a single time. She was put on ventilator and few days passed but then they told us that there was now no chance and it is better to let her on ventilator but to withdraw the drugs which were controling her heart beat, he said "Let the nature take it's course", there was no sign that she could take breath without ventilator. We asked them again for any chance and they again answered us negatively. We gave them consent to withdraw those lifesaving drugs. They did accordingly and after 1 hour and 30 minutes of that her heart beat stopped.

Is this mercy killing? And if it is, are we guilty of some bad act or it was good? Tho they clearly said that she is no more conscious and can't feel pain, but they said at the same time that even on ventilator she would soon die but it would be like torturing her.

I know I could post this in TD but I think it is mainly not about of the incident but about the moral question so I am posting this here.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Wow, I'm sure all of us are very sorry to hear about that. I have yet to lose ay of my immediate family and I can't really imagine what you must going through.

If she couldn't be saved, she's already dead, you're just keeping her flesh alive.

[Poet]

Wow, I'm sure all of us are very sorry to hear about that. I have yet to lose ay of my immediate family and I can't really imagine what you must going through.

Anyway, imagine you lived in the middle ages. She would have died straight away. If she couldn't be saved, she's already dead, you're just keeping her flesh alive.

Thanks for the sympathy in your post. Yes it is really hard to see your loved one going far away for ever. This is system made by God, parents normally leave before children, I pray that your parents live healthy with you for long time and see you prosperous and happy.

[Tiberios]

We have had our disagreements Poet, but you have my sincere condolences. I'm truely sorry for your loss. At least she is in a better place now. Peace be with her.

[Ancient Aliens]

First off, I am sorry for the loss of your mother, I can only imagine...

To answer your question:
From a medical standpoint, they had to do what they did, or your mother would have had prolonged suffering. I would have done the same thing had I been the medical professional in charge and my mother was on the table; it is the only humane thing to do. You are questioning the morality of making these decisions because this is a difficult time for you and your emotions are mixed about the subject, but your family (and the doctors) made the right call, trust me.

[Poet]

First off, I am sorry for the loss of your mother, I can only imagine...

To answer your question:
From a medical standpoint, they had to do what they did, or your mother would have had prolonged suffering. I would have done the same thing had I been the medical professional in charge and my mother was on the table; it is the only humane thing to do. You are questioning the morality of making these decisions because this is a difficult time for you and your emotions are mixed about the subject, but your family (and the doctors) made the right call, trust me.

But I heard, I think I read somehwere that in America this question was even discussed in Congress, and the story was about a woman, she was on ventilator, her husband was in favor of mercy killing and parents refused because they said that she was still breathing tho on vent, till then there was no law in America on this and Congress discussed this in few sessions and decided in favor of her (well painfull and suffering life).

[Ancient Aliens]

But I heard, I think I read somehwere that in America this question was even discussed in Congress, and the story was about a woman, she was on ventilator, her husband was in favor of mercy killing and parents refused because they said that she was still breathing tho on vent, till then there was no law in America on this and Congress discussed this in few sessions and decided in favor of her (well painfull and suffering life).

Yes, this is definitely a hot topic here in the United States. The difference is that your family made the call to end her suffering without dissent, and that your mother was ultimately going to pass away even on her life support. Many people die in extreme agony, you spared her from this so I believe you and your family made the right call. I would want my family members to do the same if I was in the same situation.

I'm sorry once again for your loss. My great-grandmother recently died in hospice care when they ultimately stopped feeding her, it was a very cruel way for one to go, and I personally find comfort in the fact that your mother wasn't made to suffer as so many people are before death.

[Khassaki]

To Poet, I am sorry for your loss, and understand that you might be distraught with the last contact you had with your mother before she died. I can only offer the suggestion that you remember the good times and not the last days. It helped me.

My great-grandmother recently died in hospice care when they ultimately stopped feeding her, it was a very cruel way for one to go, and I personally find comfort in the fact that your mother wasn't made to suffer as so many people are before death.

Removing feeding tubes is ridiculous. How can any civilised country condone that. My sister was placed on a morphine drip and died while unconscious after 3 days. If the decision is made to terminate a life, how could they not do the same thing with your great gran?

[Ancient Aliens]

Removing feeding tubes is ridiculous. How can any civilised country condone that. My sister was placed on a morphine drip and died while unconscious after 3 days. If the decision is made to terminate a life, how could they not do the same thing with your great gran?

It was partially my families decision to 'save money' because she was 'dying anyways'. When I asked what she was dying of, they had no comment. And they call me morally bankrupt...

She was my confidante and a source of wisdom for me for a long time. I am sorry she had to go the way she did and that I couldn't prevent it.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

(well painfull and suffering life).

but it's not life. Could she ever become conscios again?

[Hilarion]

She is certainly with God now. But I'm sorry for your loss, I can't imagine what it's like to lose one's mother...

As to your question, I absolutely believe you did the right thing, as much as I would hope any of my family members would do were I to be in a similar condition. Death isn't something to be feared, anyway, and since it was her time to go you made the right decision in helping her along the way.

"O Death, where is thy sting?"

[Poet]

She is certainly with God now. But I'm sorry for your loss, I can't imagine what it's like to lose one's mother...

As to your question, I absolutely believe you did the right thing, as much as I would hope any of my family members would do were I to be in a similar condition. Death isn't something to be feared, anyway, and since it was her time to go you made the right decision in helping her along the way.

"O Death, where is thy sting?"

Thanks, although I know we let her go away of pain and suffering, and that from the first day she had much chances to die then to survive, but you can't imagine how much difficult it is to allow death of someone like one's mother. Only sign of her life was on the monitor placed near her bed and her breath, but it was still too much difficult.

but it's not life. Could she ever become conscios again?

No, she was at the fourth and last stage of unconsciousness. There was no chance according to them, as far as medical science is concerned, miracle is something else.

[Denny Crane!]

First of all tough break. Sorry for your loss.

Once the body is actively dying and only the most extreme interventions are prolonging life with no hope of recovery then I would not judge that to be mercy killing.

[Visna]

I'm sorry for your loss. My condolences.

I believe you, your family and the doctors did the right thing. It would have been pointless and unkind to continue life support.

[Poet]

I'm sorry for your loss. My condolences.

I believe you, your family and the doctors did the right thing. It would have been pointless and unkind to continue life support.

Thanks for the condolences.

[Charrua]

Euthanasia means 'good death' in greek (AFAIK). So, in other words, it's a better way to die, avoiding the suffering. The difficulty of the matter is: 1) Have a 99,99999999% certainty that there are no other means of recovery, or bringing the person back. 2) The 'spirituality' of the family involved, whether they deem the 'suffering' as a part of her choice, when asked, or the idea of a potential 'miracle recovery'.

The number 2 is the more subject to debate, since there's the liberty of personal spiritual belief, and/or family spiritual belief.

Edit: And, please, have my condolences! I lost a father in law and grandfather pretty recently, so I have a 'glimpse' of what you may be feeling right now...

[Poet]

First of all tough break. Sorry for your loss.

Once the body is actively dying and only the most extreme interventions are prolonging life with no hope of recovery then I would not judge that to be mercy killing.

Thank you so much for these words.

Euthanasia means 'good death' in greek (AFAIK). So, in other words, it's a better way to die, avoiding the suffering. The difficulty of the matter is: 1) Have a 99,99999999% certainty that there are no other means of recovery, or bringing the person back. 2) The 'spirituality' of the family involved, whether they deem the 'suffering' as a part of her choice, when asked, or the idea of a potential 'miracle recovery'.

The number 2 is the more subject to debate, since there's the liberty of personal spiritual belief, and/or family spiritual belief.

Edit: And, please, have my condolences! I lost a father in law and grandfather pretty recently, so I have a 'glimpse' of what you may be feeling right now...

Thanks a lot and yes it is mainly about point 2, because we were sure that medically (as doctors said) there was no chance of her coming back. Imagine a 63-64 years old woman, with less than 45 kg weight, with 80% liver loss, renal failure, lungs infection and out of control heart beat and blood pressure, medically there was no hope.

All is about spiritual question. Signing consent for death of one's mother is not easy. As a Muslim (or any religious person Chrsitian, Jew, Hindu etc.) we believe that life and death is in God's hands. So we did not understand their clear signs for 3 or 4 days, until they asked us clearly to let her go, but here comes the question of religious importance, was it a sin or not?

[Hilarion]

All is about spiritual question. Signing consent for death of one's mother is not easy. As a Muslim (or any religious person Chrsitian, Jew, Hindu etc.) we believe that life and death is in God's hands. So we did not understand their clear signs for 3 or 4 days, until they asked us clearly to let her go, but here comes the question of religious importance, was it a sin or not?

I'm not sure how this compares to the Muslim belief, but as a Christian I believe God's mercy and understanding is beyond measure. If she was basically dead in the flesh and you released her from her suffering out of love, thereby facilitating her passage to God, He will exalt this love so that there can be no sin involved whatever. In fact, if life and death is in God's hands, it may even have been a sin to keep her "alive" under such circumstances through human scientific contraptions, when in the words of the doctor, nature had to take its course.

EDIT: And Sher Khan's quotes from the Qur'an support this last point .

[Poet]

Condolences Poet, from the bottom of my heart.

From what you've said it sounds like she died a natural death. Even if there was a small chance of operating, the bowels are so dangerous to operate on regardless of the surgeon's competence. If the problem was found in time and the operation was consented to, from which she died: Then there may be cause to play the blame game. But as far as I can tell, you consented to the removal of the artificial aide: allowing a natural death. That's the important part, you allowed god's will. You did the right thing.

I have to say I don't think I could do what you did, I assume I'm younger, but still, I understand that Irish and Muslim men traditionally regard their mothers with similar reverence. I wouldn't be able to do the right thing.

Thank you so much. Yes it is not easy to do what we did, I pray you do not have to do that. Well it is not limited to any faith or region, mother is most respectable figure everywhere. In Christondom you talk about virgin Mary (pbuh) and in Islam we talk about Aamina (pbuh), when God wants to tell us how much he loves us he gives example of a child who have not one but 70 mothers and receives love from all of them. Thanks again.

No, Poet, it would not have been a sin in this case. This was not something she decided for herself. Your family and the doctors did not take her life.

When their time comes they cannot delay it for a single hour nor can they bring it forward by a single hour.
Qur'an 16:61

And no person can ever die except by Allah's leave and at an appointed term.
Qur'an 3:145

What happened was that, by your leave, her family and her doctors had decided to stop interfering in prolonging her life from reaching its natural death. There was no wrong here, and you needn't worry.

I'm not sure how this compares to the Muslim belief, but as a Christian I believe God's mercy and understanding is beyond measure. If she was basically dead in the flesh and you released her from her suffering out of love, thereby facilitating her passage to God, He will exalt this love so that there can be no sin involved whatever. In fact, if life and death is in God's hands, it may even have been a sin to keep her "alive" under such circumstances through human scientific contraptions, when in the words of the doctor, nature had to take its course.

EDIT: And Sher Khan's quotes from the Qur'an support this last point .

Thanks both of you. It was truly helpful. You know we have bonds within our families, I love my siblings, but especially my elder sister, and she started weeping before doctor as he was asking us to give consent for withdrawing medical aid. We signed that paper and on the other side of glass door my mothers' eyes were open and in pendulum movement. I and she felt as we were allowing her death in front of her.

[Oldgamer]

Poet, you have my deepest sympathy.

No, I don't think this was a "mercy killing". It was allowing the body and life to take its natural course.

This is something that you will never get over. However, it's something that you can deal with. Life, in its purest essence, boils down to loss. I'm 62, and all of my grandparents, uncles & aunts, and both of my parents are gone. Two of my sons died in combat, and one died in a senseless drowning accident. The latter was very hard to take (harder than the two sons who died in Afghanistan and Iraq, respectively ... death in combat is something that is always a possibility).

You will never forget your loss, nor should you. But you should never punish yourself for the loss of your mother. It's obvious that her time had come, from what you have said. It wasn't your fault, or that of the medical staff. It was a natural event in your mother's life, that could not have been prevented.

You and your family have the prayers of my wife and I.