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  1. #1
    GambleFish's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Chinese Revolution?

    Part of an article from Time Magazine -

    The man is almost too scared to talk. "I am just a farmer," he whispers, shortly after the police had
    descended on his village of Panlong in China's southern Guangdong province. "I know I don't matter." But what he has witnessed does. In mid-January, the man joined a remarkable protest against the local government's decision to seize communal farmland and lease it to a foreign investor. For several days, more than 1,000 villagers gathered near the disputed land, brandishing pitchforks and blocking a highway. But the brief exercise in free expression ended in tragedy. As dusk fell on Jan. 14, men armed with electric batons poured out of police vans and attacked the farmers. Villagers say a 13-year-old girl who tried to hide behind a woodpile was beaten to death, and they estimate that 20 or so others were seriously injured. (A spokesperson from nearby Zhongshan City claims the girl died of a heart attack.) The clash was barely reported within China, but few locals believe it will be the last. Says the witness, who doesn't want his name used for fear of official retribution: "The local government has lost the hearts of the people."

    China's leaders had better try to win them back. Violent local protests are convulsing the Chinese countryside with ever greater frequency--and Beijing has proved unable to quell the unrest. By the central government's own count, there were 87,000 "public-order disturbances" in 2005, up from 10,000 in 1994. Most took place in out-of-the-way hamlets like Panlong, where peasants who were once the backbone of the Communist Party feel excluded from China's full-throttle economic development. Many of China's 900 million rural inhabitants are farmers, who have little legal or political leverage. They have borne a disproportionate share of the side effects of China's growth, from environmental degradation to misrule by local party officials more eager to line their pockets than provide basic services. Income disparity between the urban rich and the rural poor is at its widest since the People's Republic was founded in 1949. "What China has now is the worst of a planned economy and the worst of capitalism," says Christine Wong, a University of Washington professor who studies local governance in China. "The farmers are the ones who are losing out the most."

    Their anger could have seismic consequences. Revolutions in China have a history of springing from rural discontent. The Communist Party rose to power on the strength of its pledge to protect the rights of farmers who joined its fight to overthrow the landlord class. The current crop of Communist leaders is aware that rural unrest could spark political mayhem, especially when cell phones and the Internet can connect citizens with the click of a button. In some cases, such as in Panlong, local officials have resorted to violence to suppress the uprisings, which has only incited more rage. In response to the rising furor, President Hu Jintao announced plans last month to give billions of dollars in central-government aid to farmers. "If farmers are rich, then the country will be prosperous," Hu said. "If villages are stable, then the society will also be stable."

    But promises from Beijing alone won't stem the discontent. Today, China is one of the only countries that puts the responsibility for health care, social security and education in local governments' hands, but the focus on generating foreign investment rather than supplying basic services has left much of rural China, where 70% of the population lives, in a dire condition. Millions live on the edge of destitution, without access to sustainable jobs or medical care. Although Beijing regularly pumps out well-meaning initiatives, most are unfunded mandates that are ignored by local officials. "We talk to the central government, and it's clear they want to reverse these huge inequalities," says the University of Washington's Wong, who also works for the World Bank as a consultant on China. "But fixing the problem is like pushing a piece of string through five levels of government. I think many people in Beijing have come to the conclusion that they don't know how to fix this problem."
    ...The question is whether Beijing can assuage rural discontent before it hardens into a wider, more flammable agrarian revolt. The central government has experimented with programs that channel money more directly to the people meant to receive it--one project involves wiring teachers' salaries to post-office accounts instead of leaving pay at the discretion of local officials. But the authorities' main tactic for stopping the spread of rural protests remains preventing word about them from getting out. Panlong residents say that since the Jan. 14 protest, their uncensored satellite feed from Hong Kong has been cut, so they have little idea how the outside world views their story. Journalists who try to get close to the village have been detained.

    But China may not be able to stifle the voices of protest much longer. About 30 miles from Panlong, in the village of Lishan, a farmer named Liang Beidai is one of the growing number who are ready to fight back. Three Lishan residents were injured last month after protests of land seizures turned bloody, with a high school student allegedly shot in the head. "We are prepared to die for [our rights]," says protest leader Liang. "The entire village is doomed anyway. We have no money, no job, no land. There's nothing left to be scared of." If angry farmers truly lose their sense of fear, it may ultimately be Beijing that is running scared.


    With reporting by Bu Hua/ Shanghai, Susan Jakes/ Beijing
    The article goes on to talk about how local farmers and villagers have their land taken away or occupied, and when they try to protest to Beijing no reply is returned. So they are forced to resort to violence and stage protests, which DOES get a reply from Beijing - violent suppression.

    Could we be seeing the beginning of the end for China?
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  2. #2

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    Probably, but China is trying to buy them back, they announced that 50 billion rural socialist plan last week. If they really want to re-destribute on a massive scale though, how can they do it without sacrificing the prosperity of capitalist coastal area through high taxes?

  3. #3
    Virgil's Avatar Powered by Technicolor©
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    I knew this was going to happen. I did a report recently about around 25 villagers who were shot while protesting a power plant being built nearby.
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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    at least they have the right to protest..

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich
    at least they have the right to protest..
    But no answers.

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    GambleFish's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich
    at least they have the right to protest..
    Are you serious? The protesters are beaten off by soldiers, sometimes shot, and killed.

    People die because of pollution from factories built nearby, and when they protest, they also die.

    They are running out of options.... and when 900 million people run out of options, you've got some pretty big problems.
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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al'Thor
    Are you serious? .
    no i was kidding but i like chinese food

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    GambleFish's Avatar Campidoctor
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    If there is a Chinese rebellion what kind of government would form?
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al'Thor
    If there is a Chinese rebellion what kind of government would form?
    If their was a Chinese rebellion it would sink the country into 50 years of Chaos like the last one. I'd guantee regional warlords and powerful generals as well.

    You dont want this to happen.
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  10. #10

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    China will change eventually. For them their is going to be no quick change, its going to be long term gradual change. I believe that eventually they will become a democratic society by themselves, we just have to wait 50 years or more for all the gradual changes to occur.

    They are going to get some kind of leader like Gorbie who wants the change to happen.
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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    I hope there is no violent revolution, though I hope for a peaceful one that will bring Democracy to 2 billion more people. I believe that sort of revolution may be getting close.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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  12. #12
    Senator
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    The population is 1.3 billion , not 2 billion.....
    WE GO PLAY SOME HOOP

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    China is no where close to a civil war, some people are unhappy with the government that's all. It's like saying America is on the brink of a civil war because some Americans dislike the Bush administration.

    And what exactly are these farmers protesting? They are protesting capitalization, the concentration of wealth into high density areas. The corruption of the CCP, which now caters to the wealthy elite. The farmers want to go back to the "good old days".
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    China is no where close to a civil war, some people are unhappy with the government that's all. It's like saying America is on the brink of a civil war because some Americans dislike the Bush administration.

    And what exactly are these farmers protesting? They are protesting capitalization, the concentration of wealth into high density areas. The corruption of the CCP, which now caters to the wealthy elite. The farmers want to go back to the "good old days".
    They are protesting the govt. taking their land away with no return...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al'Thor
    They are protesting the govt. taking their land away with no return...
    Well, they should know it when their grandfathers supported CCP. Communist never think about private land, everything belongs to country and party.
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  16. #16

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    Sorry to ruin the Party, but you guys seem to talk as if "Democracy is the ultimate form of government." and that everything will become like it. Guess who's buying the land? US investors. Yes that's right. US investors.

    87,000 : 1.5 Billion...

    seems like a good proportion.

    China will have to get rid of it's rural areas that are doing nothing. It's called usig the land.

    Well, they should know it when their grandfathers supported CCP. Communist never think about private land, everything belongs to country and party.
    Umm ok? Is that why you can own property in China and start a Business? :laughing:

    China represses its people and denies them basic human rights, while abusing their lives and their lands. If a revolution might (not even for certain) free them, then I would support it. A full sixth of the population of the world is not free, when they could be. Their government exploits them while they live in poverty.
    LOL, only democracies can have Human Rights aight?

    Yeah, and if you havn't been taking economics, the One Child Policy's ultimate aim was to make the general population Richer and raise living standards in able for the country to devellop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BassV2
    Sorry to ruin the Party, but you guys seem to talk as if "Democracy is the ultimate form of government." and that everything will become like it. Guess who's buying the land? US investors. Yes that's right. US investors.
    Guess who's letting them / permitting them? Chinese government... Guess who loses? The 900 million peasants.

    87,000 : 1.5 Billion...

    seems like a good proportion.

    China will have to get rid of it's rural areas that are doing nothing. It's called usig the land.
    Except in each demonstration there is more than one person...

    Plus if even 87,000 are doing it in a society like China's, you can bet a whoooole lot more are thinking it.

    And rural land was being used.... by the farmers.... now it's taken from them... it's called giving the people some way to live...

    LOL, only democracies can have Human Rights aight?

    Yeah, and if you havn't been taking economics, the One Child Policy's ultimate aim was to make the general population Richer and raise living standards in able for the country to devellop.
    Wanna name me a communist society, anywhere in all of history, that has had more human rights then a modern day democracy?

    And the aim might have been that, but no communist society has ever stayed true to Marx and his ideals - they all become totalitarian societes controlled by one small group. I would say that planning something and doing it are completely different...
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    Guess who's letting them / permitting them? Chinese government... Guess who loses? The 900 million peasants.
    IF thers no purchaser, you can't sell it... and by selling a piece of land in the Guangdong province means all the peasants lose ? Wow ? And whered 900 million peasants come from ?

    Plus if even 87,000 are doing it in a society like China's, you can bet a whoooole lot more are thinking it.
    LOL, sorry, come back to MODERN day please. There is No Chain Reaciton. Your talking as if people want to get rid of the Communist Party since their births, and when thers riots, they'll all riot? ? ? ok ? ? I don't see peopel joining in demonstrations in America.

    And rural land was being used.... by the farmers.... now it's taken from them... it's called giving the people some way to live...
    Correct. Imrpoving Living standards by Urbanizing.

    Wanna name me a communist society, anywhere in all of history, that has had more human rights then a modern day democracy?
    Not history. Today. China.
    Lol, if you have been living in a hole only listening to AMerican Propoganda, you wouldn't know how COMMunist parties in HISTORY are different from the Chinese Communist Party. That's why the CCP is sucessful while the others one fell.

    And the aim might have been that, but no communist society has ever stayed true to Marx and his ideals - they all become totalitarian societes controlled by one small group.
    Yes, the aim is the aim... and that's why this Commuinst Party survived so long, because Marx ideals are the poo. And totalitarian socities, isn't that what the USA is right now? I'm sorry, but the Democratic Party just follows PARTY policy. There might be 200 of them, but they will all ACT like one... numbers alone do not matter. WOW thers an OPPOSITION in AMERICA, but can they do jack ? NO.

  19. #19

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    Correct. Imrpoving Living standards by Urbanizing.
    If you have ever bothered to set food in the cities, you would have realized that is a myth at best.

  20. #20
    GambleFish's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassV2
    IF thers no purchaser, you can't sell it... and by selling a piece of land in the Guangdong province means all the peasants lose ? Wow ? And whered 900 million peasants come from ?
    First post. "Many of China's 900 million rural inhabitants are farmers"

    LOL, sorry, come back to MODERN day please. There is No Chain Reaciton. Your talking as if people want to get rid of the Communist Party since their births, and when thers riots, they'll all riot? ? ? ok ? ? I don't see peopel joining in demonstrations in America.
    They didn't want to get rid of it since it's birth... only since it started becoming capitalist and exploiting it's farmers.
    People demonstarte in America all the time - but we don't have to riot, because we have freedom of speech. Unlike chinese farmers.

    Correct. Imrpoving Living standards by Urbanizing.
    China Rises. WBK said it first.

    Not history. Today. China.
    Lol, if you have been living in a hole only listening to AMerican Propoganda, you wouldn't know how COMMunist parties in HISTORY are different from the Chinese Communist Party. That's why the CCP is sucessful while the others one fell.
    Any communist society in all of history is what I said. That includes China.

    Hey guess what buddy? China has less human rights and freedom than America... welcome to reality! :wink:

    Yes, the aim is the aim... and that's why this Commuinst Party survived so long, because Marx ideals are the poo. And totalitarian socities, isn't that what the USA is right now? I'm sorry, but the Democratic Party just follows PARTY policy. There might be 200 of them, but they will all ACT like one... numbers alone do not matter. WOW thers an OPPOSITION in AMERICA, but can they do jack ? NO.
    I would say that the USA is not a totalitarian society... unless of course you listen to biased anti-americain propaganda.

    You seem to think that China has more human rights and freedom than America. You are badly deluded, my friend Forte.

    "WOW thers an OPPOSITION in AMERICA, but can they do jack ? NO."
    In america, we don't need to riot to make our voices heard - because we have freedom of speech...
    The fail whale.

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