The College Conspiracy

[Axeman]

http://dailybail.com/home/college-co...tter-than.html

Very interesting.

A bit sensationalist, but very true in many aspects.

EDIT:

Ok guys this conversation is going off topic in a direction that I want to avoid, I probably should have elaborated more on the oppening and subsequent posts, but they were from my phone.

The point I am trying to make and bring up for discussion here isn't whether or not college is worth it for EVERYBODY *I personally am in college right now*, I wanted to adress.

1) College's deterorating standards *Bacehlor's degree is the new High School Diploma*
2) Skyrocketing costs of tuition created by easily acessible and unaccounted student loans.
*IE a bubble like the housing market*
3) The overall costs of college on average compared to working out of high school factoring in lost income, student loans, college expenses such as tuition and textbooks, ect.... and whether it is worth it for the average person not going into a specialized or technical profession.

I would like to make it clear the original purpose of this thread wasn't to attack college as an evil instiution or attack education in general*which I feel some people to see this as* but rather adress the problems facing it.

[Guy]

I guess this could apply to a range of jobs, really. It shows how society has become so judgemental and focused on costly education while ignoring the truths in the employment world.

When I was a small Guy we used to joke about bin men/garbage men. I later found out that a local company was hiring them to work only 3 days a week for a hefty £45,000 per year.

To hell with university!

[Pyrich]

State employment. The new minor nobility?

[Cougar109]

State employment. The new minor nobility?

Not quite, I'm a State Employee (City/State actually, but close enough) and it's not as sexy as that article makes it out to be. But reality is you have to offer these lucrative packages otherwise they'd never fill the positions. It's simply competition; you need capable bodies working in the prisons, working the various emergency services, etc, and because these aren't the glamorous jobs you need to entice some of these quality people out there to come work for you.

[Pyrich]

Not quite, I'm a State Employee (City/State actually, but close enough) and it's not as sexy as that article makes it out to be. But reality is you have to offer these lucrative packages otherwise they'd never fill the positions. It's simply competition; you need capable bodies working in the prisons, working the various emergency services, etc, and because these aren't the glamorous jobs you need to entice some of these quality people out there to come work for you.

I should of put an emote, it was a half joking comment. Here


Still, I'm not a fan of Public sectors getting "too big" and really hate private sector unions running public sector fields. And the prison issue as a whole... is.. well, theres got to be a better way. IDK the quick fix myself.

More labor/education based prisons for short timers, we could always use more fruit pickers, roof tar-ers afterall. A more throw away the key approach for repeat/dangerous individuals maybe? Its current form is a growing problem imo.

Time to buy silver!

Sorry fellow, that bubble was about a year and a half ago, missed it. Boy was it beautiful when it began to ballon up. Maybe corn next? ...I really have no idea btw.. but silver was the "Everyone aboard, easy peasy money train, here we go".

**Oh wow, just checked as ive been out of the loop on silver the last several months, it has been exploding lately, wow, i stand corrected, still not like it was a couple years ago, still more than i figured it would though... Its almost troubling... I suppose in the back of my head I was thinking, "Dark Age 2 averted, commadities will stabilize or maybe even pop". Hehe, should of known better.
At this rate i think im gonna focus on investing in canned food and shotgun shells

[Cougar109]

I should of put an emote, it was a half joking comment. Here

Figured as much, more fun though to argue.

Still, I'm not a fan of Public sectors getting "too big" and really hate private sector unions running public sector fields. And the prison issue as a whole... is.. well, theres got to be a better way. IDK the quick fix myself.

More labor/education based prisons for short timers, we could always use more fruit pickers, roof tar-ers afterall. A more throw away the key approach for repeat/dangerous individuals maybe? Its current form is a growing problem imo.

I don't see how they're getting to big. The public sector can't compete with the average base salary you get in the private sector when looking at comparable education and skill requirements. They try to shore it up by offering better benefits but the jobs have always been and still are far more lucrative in the private sector and that's where people go when given the opportunity. Many departments on the state and local level in the public sector are undermanned, especially in regards to emergency services and the judicial and prison system.

Don't you work in Florida?

Yeah.

Yes it is.

The point is though while being scary or risky, it also requires far less education.

The comparison was a high school graduate becoming a prison guard after some basic and on the sight training was better off than the vast majority of college students, even those with technical degrees like engineering.

It wasn't an attack on the work of the prison gaurd, only the educational level, it was to show that you can make great money out of highschool if you have a bit of natural brains, talent, and determination, and you do not need a few hundred thousand dollars of debt to get there.

For the last time, the prison gaurd was picked for a comparison. The video attacks the government on bad student loans practice and other things, but not on how much it pays all of its workers.

My problem with the article is it seemed to go to the extreme ends of the spectrum to try and prove a point. Why bring up elite big name universities and out of state tuition? Do smaller, local universities not count anymore? Florida International University has an annual tuition somewhere between $5k-$8k these days, Florida Atlantic not much more. On the flip side they literally post the best case scenario, in reality you're going to be working 20-25 years before you reach that point presented in the article (Based of Florida standards, maybe it's quicker in Cali.) and for many years you're going to be well below a comparable private sector job. I understand your point and to a lesser extent agree, the article just seemed to go on way to far in order to confirm it.

[Pyrich]

I don't see how they're getting to big. The public sector can't compete with the average base salary you get in the private sector when looking at comparable education and skill requirements. They try to shore it up by offering better benefits but the jobs have always been and still are far more lucrative in the private sector and that's where people go when given the opportunity. Many departments on the state and local level in the public sector are undermanned, especially in regards to emergency services and the judicial and prison system.

Name a public sector that goes bust? I can name a dozen private sector ones off the top off my head. And i dont mean cut, i mean dead as a door nail, 3 week old fish smell DEAD. No change of course, no re-direction, no headed by this new agencie hostile take over, just flat out you dont exist anymore, enjoy obscurity, so long and goodbye till you prove yourself worthy DEAD.

IMO public sector should have better benifits, thats their perk. However it shouldnt have equal or in some few cases better pay at all. Its a risk managment, job security thing. Cold blooded, if thats what you want to call it, just the way i see It. You want real money, unmount yourself from the tax payer nipple. AND THAT GOES 1000000 TIMES TOWARDS TO BIG TO FAIL INDUSRTY!!! At least Teachers and Police provide a service to all, car makers forcing us to bail them out, then forcing us to buy their goods like everything is hunky dory is.... stomache turning...


As a country we used to pride ourselves yanking corrupt public leaders and agents out into the streets and covering them in molten 400 degree tar, then fluffing them with feathers just to add insult to injury. Today all the iron in our blood has turned into lead in our ^s& or somthing...

PS, yes, been drinking.

[craziii]

Not quite, I'm a State Employee (City/State actually, but close enough) and it's not as sexy as that article makes it out to be. But reality is you have to offer these lucrative packages otherwise they'd never fill the positions. It's simply competition; you need capable bodies working in the prisons, working the various emergency services, etc, and because these aren't the glamorous jobs you need to entice some of these quality people out there to come work for you.

only true when companies are competing with each other over hires right now, you can fire 100 and have 1000 apply for those jobs at reduce wages.

if I only have to work for 3 days and get pay 45k pounds for it, hell, I would do it when I am semi retire PP

[Axeman]

Time to buy silver!

[tarvu]

Wow what an incredibley misguided article.

Prison guards= a "cushy" government paycheck. Jesus ing christ guess it really goes to show you how far these anti-government nutjobs will go. Public workers/social services/teachers and now prison guards are their target? What's next firemen and police?

It is a hazardous job that demands a lot of the people who do it, I find it sickening how people would target these brave men and women for the crime of making a living wage, and yet some moron who sells useless widgets to bedazzled consumers is lauded as a hero of capitalistic values. Anything public automatically=evil and wasteful to these people even when they are on the front lines protecting society from violent criminals, apparently that garners no respect from these hypocrites, but Herman Cain formerly of "pizza chain" fame and little else is somehow accomplished enough to run for president in these people's minds.

[JP226]

A nice home doesn't cost 50k and UVA isn't a typical public college.... Way to this topic up axeman.

I also went to an elite private highschool that cost at most 10k a year. Only ones pushing serious dollars were NE bording schools that my sisters went to.And those were such a rarity but had always cost that much...

Not quite, I'm a State Employee (City/State actually, but close enough) and it's not as sexy as that article makes it out to be. But reality is you have to offer these lucrative packages otherwise they'd never fill the positions. It's simply competition; you need capable bodies working in the prisons, working the various emergency services, etc, and because these aren't the glamorous jobs you need to entice some of these quality people out there to come work for you.

Don't you work in Florida?

[Fluttershy]

A nice home doesn't cost 50k and UVA isn't a typical public college.... Way to this topic up axeman.

I also went to an elite private highschool that cost at most 10k a year. Only ones pushing serious dollars were NE bording schools that my sisters went to.And those were such a rarity but had always cost that much...

how is 10k a year for HS NOT serious dollars?

remember the average american family isnt rich as you are implying you are

[Axeman]

A nice home doesn't cost 50k and UVA isn't a typical public college.... Way to this topic up axeman.

I also went to an elite private highschool that cost at most 10k a year. Only ones pushing serious dollars were NE bording schools that my sisters went to.And those were such a rarity but had always cost that much...

Yes because I personally fine checked every detail in that video, but...



Secondly, this of the prototypical American family. The fact you went to an elite private high school right there shows you are applying your standards as average, but since the average American family makes between $40-$50,000 , I can guarantee most don't spend a quarter of their income on an elite private school.

Besides that, that was not even the main point of the video at all and was a side-remark not about cost, but about the attitude of the USA towards college, that SOME people are paying huge amounts of money for a school solely to prepare for more school. I am sorry you had an experience that may contradict what the average person *income wise* experiences, but you either had a very skewed sense of financial prioritization if you spent a quarter of your income on high-school, or you were not average.



Thirdly, why is this anti government? The entire thing is talking about how unchecked government loans and artificially low interest rates have created a "college-bubble" by spiking tuition. The video advocates cutting down loans to a need based system rather than entitlement *you know, how most other government systems work* so that you get the poorest getting aid to go to college. This would allow tuition to drop because they wouldn't have to keep the 90-10 ratio, and not everybody could get all the money for current tuition, meaning the majority of students will not be able to enroll. If colleges have to choose between lowering their tuition and losing the majority of their students, there is no contest which will be chosen. Not to mention one look at my signature should tell everybody clearly where I stand on unchecked libertarianism.

Please watch the video and do not look at the headline and you might understand the comparison, it was cultural not just monetary.

[Angrychris]

being a prison guard is one of the most scariest and risky jobs

[Axeman]

Yes it is.

The point is though while being scary or risky, it also requires far less education.

The comparison was a high school graduate becoming a prison guard after some basic and on the sight training was better off than the vast majority of college students, even those with technical degrees like engineering.

It wasn't an attack on the work of the prison gaurd, only the educational level, it was to show that you can make great money out of highschool if you have a bit of natural brains, talent, and determination, and you do not need a few hundred thousand dollars of debt to get there.

For the last time, the prison gaurd was picked for a comparison. The video attacks the government on bad student loans practice and other things, but not on how much it pays all of its workers.

[JP226]

how is 10k a year for HS NOT serious dollars?

If anyone in the family is anywhere competent enough to earn a professional degree, you're talking 6 figures for the household. It isn't overly difficult and given that, a prep school isn't overly expensive. OUr validictorian the year I graduated got into the Alpert Medical School which is the most selective of colleges in medicine if not in total. At that time they only accepted around 50 students a year. I'm sure it's more now, but not that much more. Either way she couldn't have done that going to a public dysfunctional highschool. And in Tampa we had some pretty steller public education programs like Plant and the slew of magnet schools. Schools that required intelligence that europeans and foreigners could only imagine possessing.

[Axeman]

If anyone in the family is anywhere competent enough to earn a professional degree, you're talking 6 figures for the household. It isn't overly difficult and given that, a prep school isn't overly expensive. OUr validictorian the year I graduated got into the Alpert Medical School which is the most selective of colleges in medicine if not in total. At that time they only accepted around 50 students a year. I'm sure it's more now, but not that much more. Either way she couldn't have done that going to a public dysfunctional highschool. And in Tampa we had some pretty steller public education programs like Plant and the slew of magnet schools. Schools that required intelligence that europeans and foreigners could only imagine possessing.

Are you trolling or do you not understand the concept of "average"?

JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO YOU IS NOT AVERAGE!

[Angrychris]

when has college been about making money

[JP226]

Are you trolling or do you not understand the concept of "average"?

JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO YOU IS NOT AVERAGE!

I'm not that above average. Sure we can't all have master degrees in economics from American universities in this world and project revenues, but i've been doing it for 2 years and have plenty of cash to be considered above average. And I wasn't the best of all students given my proficiency for cervesa. Therefore, showing an ability to even give a minute willingness to care can get you more than what I have. And what I have isn't based on intelligence, it's on work ethic and most aren't willing to produce it so... them. 10k isn't alot if you can be reasonably responsible with yourself and your cash.

[Fluttershy]

I'm not that above average. Sure we can't all have master degrees in economics from American universities in this world and project revenues, but i've been doing it for 2 years and have plenty of cash to be considered above average. And I wasn't the best of all students given my proficiency for cervesa. Therefore, showing an ability to even give a minute willingness to care can get you more than what I have. And what I have isn't based on intelligence, it's on work ethic and most aren't willing to produce it so... them. 10k isn't alot if you can be reasonably responsible with yourself and your cash.

for the average american family... yes, 10k a year is a lot. Its like you dont comprehend that just because you had it easy coming from a wealthy doesent mean its easy.