Prayer at Graduation (guess where)

[(s)AINT]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/chris...-at-graduation

A high school in Louisiana removed a traditional prayer from its graduation ceremony after an atheist student complained. But one of the students put it back in. Last week Damon Fowler wrote to the principal of Bastrop High School, saying the Christian prayer was a violation of church and state separation laws, and if it wasn't removed, he would contact the ACLU.
The school backed down and removed the prayer from Friday's program and replaced it with a moment of silence.
"I don't think it's a shame I'll be remembered this way, because what I'm doing is right," Fowler told TV station KTVE in Monroe, Louisiana.
However, the student who was supposed to introduce the moment of silence ignored the school's wishes, saying, "I now ask my fellow students who wish to join in to recite the Lord’s Prayer.” Laci Mattice said her faith compelled her to thank God for blessing the class of 2011.
Local newspaper the Bastrop Daily Enterprise reports that a majority of the 1,000 people who attended the ceremony said the prayer.

They are at it again. Who cares about the rights of one student?

[Claudius Gothicus]

This was a Public School right? If so, this continues to prove that Separation of Church and State... is a concept some americans still fail to conceive.

[Carpathian Wolf]

This was a Public School right? If so, this continues to prove that Separation of Church and State... is a concept some americans still fail to conceive.

Separation of Church and State referred to the State not mingling in the affairs of the Church. That's all. The American forefathers would have prayers in congress and the senate and nobody said a damn thing.

I wasn't even born in the States and I know that.


Now that the American forefathers were a bunch of slave owning protestant heretic semi deistic masons is another matter.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Separation of Church and State referred to the State not mingling in the affairs of the Church. That's all. The American forefathers would have prayers in congress and the senate and nobody said a damn thing.

I wasn't even born in the States and I know that.


Now that the American forefathers were a bunch of slave owning protestant heretic semi deistic masons is another matter.

Fin.

[Dr. Croccer]

Separation of Church and State referred to the State not mingling in the affairs of the Church. That's all. The American forefathers would have prayers in congress and the senate and nobody said a damn thing.

Indeed. Guess what, seperation of church and state... means the seperation of the church from the state. Nothing else. It means that neither bodies has influence over each other, which is a good thing. It doesn't mean that anything remotely religious has to be purged from public life.

[(s)AINT]

Yeah. In the south. Why can't they just pray in their heads during the moment of silence?

I bet if it was a Muslim majority at that school and they wanted to say a prayer to Allah and there was 1 Christian student - people would flip the out.

[Ancient Aliens]

This was a Public School right? If so, this continues to prove that Separation of Church and State... is a concept some americans still fail to conceive.

You somehow managed to spin this into Anti-American sentiment. Impressive.
It's very interesting that an Argentinian would have the nerve to attack the United States on issues of seperation of church and state, considering you only allowed your president to be a non Roman Catholic in your relatively recent 1994 reforms. You also had an area called the Salta Province pass legislation making the teaching of religion a requirement in 2008. So how about you look in the mirror before commenting about the foulness of the United States. I am extremely tired of people from countries that still have mud hovels and areas with a lack of electricity and plumbing expressing Anti-American sentiment.

Yeah. In the south. Why can't they just pray in their heads during the moment of silence?

I bet if it was a Muslim majority at that school and they wanted to say a prayer to Allah and there was 1 Christian student - people would flip the out.

There is actually a lot of Muslim rights groups who would try to bury something like this as well. The point is that it is wrong no matter who does it and that this is a violation of that students rights.

[Claudius Gothicus]

You somehow managed to spin this into Anti-American sentiment. Impressive.

How so? did I make a generalization? or did I strickly attain to the fact that in the State of Louisiana some people fail to realize that Public Schools are no place for Religious Practice?

People in Lousiana are American Citizens therefore my whole statement was totally accurate, note the tone and aim of my words: ''some'', ''fail to conceive'' ''separation of church and state''

Where did I bash the American Nation? The American Spirit(a highly Secular rooted one)? or the American State as a Whole?

It's very interesting that an Argentinian would have the nerve to attack the United States on issues of seperation of church and state, considering you only allowed your president to be a non Roman Catholic in your relatively recent 1994 reforms. You also had an area called the Salta Province pass legislation making the teaching of religion a requirement in 2008. So how about you look in the mirror before commenting about the foulness of the United States. I am extremely tired of people from countries that still have mud hovels and areas with a lack of electricity and plumbing expressing Anti-American sentiment.

How is bringing up my nationality relevant to a thread that's related strickly to something that happened in the USA? I'm not here to discuss religion and state on my country in this thread but you are as well welcomed to open an specific thread about Argentina or South America as a whole

Ohh and you own me an apology

[Ancient Aliens]

How so? did I make a generalization? or did I strickly attain to the fact that in the State of Louisiana some people fail to realize that Public Schools are no place for Religious Practice?

People in Lousiana are American Citizens therefore my whole statement was totally accurate, note the tone and aim of my words: ''some'', ''fail to conceive'' ''separation of church and state''

Where did I bash the American Nation? The American Spirit(a highly Secular rooted one)? or the American State as a Whole?

No you are correct, I misread what you said and overreacted. I was on edge because I post on multiple sites and I was just going at it with someone from Tehran who was expressing Anti-American sentiment, which I found to be unbelievably ironic.

How is bringing up my nationality relevant to a thread that's related strickly to something that happened in the USA? I'm not here to discuss religion and state on my country in this thread but you are as well welcomed to open an specific thread about Argentina or South America as a whole

I was bringing your country up in a comparitive manner, although I think that's obvious.

Ohh and you own me an apology

I'm sorry.

P.S. You guys have great steak.

I'm an atheist and I graduated from secondary school last thursday. We had an entire mass and I didn't care.

It's the principle of the matter that I find offensive, it is a public school and it was supposed to be a secular ceremony.

Well clearly you're insecure about something, he didn't express any anti-american sentiment at all. In fact I interpreted it as "come on, Americans are better than this".

You are right, although it wasn't insecurity, just a misunderstanding. By the way you repped me for what I said earlier.

[Claudius Gothicus]

...

It's ok man, no problem I had my fair share of ups myself

[Vanoi]

I am actually torn on this issue here. Yes schools shold have a seperation of church and state, but why is this such a big deal? I was an atheist in school and every morning after saying the pledge, we would have a moment of silence. I didn't care. This should be a big issue at all. Though the school should follow the seperation fo church and state, and not actively promote any religions.

[Bjorn]

I am actually torn on this issue here. Yes schools shold have a seperation of church and state, but why is this such a big deal? I was an atheist in school and every morning after saying the pledge, we would have a moment of silence. I didn't care. This should be a big issue at all. Though the school should follow the seperation fo church and state, and not actively promote any religions.

It's more of the symbolic meaning of it all. If you permit in a public school that type of attitude, you make the whole idea of church-state seperation become an obvious lie... If someone wants to have a school prayer moment, study in a school that is openly and legally christian

I myself never thought it right for a public school to do this kind of thing. It is disrespectful to minorities, making it seem as if the school was more for christian students then none christian students...

[Rex Germanius]

The students took the initiative here to promote a religion, not the school. Therefore, the school, an extension and representative of the state, is not responsible. There was no violation of separation of church and state here.

[Ancient Aliens]

The students took the initiative here to promote a religion, not the school. Therefore, the school, an extension and representative of the state, is not responsible. There was no violation of separation of church and state here.

The student violated the program, and by extension the school itself violated the seperation of church and state, especially if she was allowed to continue her speech. I would be particularly interested to know if said girl was reprimanded or not.

[(s)AINT]

That is why you do not have a prayer for ANY religion/faith at a public event / school event. Period.

The students took the initiative here to promote a religion, not the school. Therefore, the school, an extension and representative of the state, is not responsible. There was no violation of separation of church and state here.

They went against the program. There was no "initiative".

[Rex Germanius]

Although a student is by no means an extension of the state, if they allowed the prayer to continue then they condoned it and are responsible. But the students did take the initiative, which in case you don't understand that, it means the students violated the program, not the school itself.

[(s)AINT]

A little more insight.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I'm an atheist and I graduated from secondary school last thursday. We had an entire mass and I didn't care.

You somehow managed to spin this into Anti-American sentiment. Impressive.
It's very interesting that an Argentinian would have the nerve to attack the United States on issues of seperation of church and state, considering you only allowed your president to be a non Roman Catholic in your relatively recent 1994 reforms. You also had an area called the Salta Province pass legislation making the teaching of religion a requirement in 2008. So how about you look in the mirror before commenting about the foulness of the United States. I am extremely tired of people from countries that still have mud hovels and areas with a lack of electricity and plumbing expressing Anti-American sentiment.

Well clearly you're insecure about something, he didn't express any anti-american sentiment at all. In fact I interpreted it as "come on, Americans are better than this".

[Vanoi]

I'm an atheist and I graduated from secondary school last thursday. We had an entire mass and I didn't care.

Well in Ireland i am sure there is different views on seperation of church and state and that would not be acceptable in the US. But yes i wouldn't have cared either. I don't understand why some atheists have to make such a big deal out of this.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Well in Ireland i am sure there is different views on seperation of church and state and that would not be acceptable in the US.

Well, officially there are no ties between the RC church and the state, but most state-run schools, despite being secular, have almost exclusively Catholic staff and naturally they influence all aspects of school life heavily. Nobody protests. Not that it's that big of a deal.