SSHIP - Original Thread (archived)

[Ravenant]

@Ichon, Lifthrasir: after 1.0 is released, we can discuss about adding some history events with script. Like Almohads rising and things like that.

[Quark]

imo event scripting is the only way to go to give a player the feeling of playing each faction uniquely. As a Byzantium player I want Bulgarian uprisings, latin masacres, Guy of Lusignan invading Cyprus, frankish invasions for the 4th crusade, the rise of the ottamans etc.

As France not having Raymond turn up with a stack of cathar rebels and a whole bunch of heretics would just be wierd to play. Ofc you have to randomise these events a bit so the player does not know exactly when they will appear, but we are producing a taste of history, not a exact match, as that is impossible - after all you cannot ingame do things like marry of a one year old Petronilla to Ramon Berenguer and totally swap the dynastic tree of Aragon.

There is already a cathar event, so you just spawn if Toulouse is owned by catholic player, you cannot force a cusade unfortuneately, but its a good start. You could start a turn counter and give the player x turns to take back, or loose status with pope, or even get excomuinicated, but that seems a tad much imo.

The script is really quite easy as we already have such for mongol invasions for instance. Just add something like this in as well
spawn_character slave random_name, heretic, age 30, x ..., y ...

Once you have a series of events for each faction, its a matter then of refining things and seeing how smart you can be with the code we have.

France was always in trouble with its treasury, so you could do Philip Augustus exiling the Jews in 1181, or ditto just before the Templars. The destruction of the Templars is one of the most well known events in history, so just give the player the chance for a quick buck and set the trade values of buildings to zero for x turns to reflect the effect on economic growth.

This way, playing each faction gives you a unique experience and challenges.

[King Salvatore I]

Hi all,

I love your ss mods great stuff. I thank all the modders here for all there hard work. I been reading the post on cutting and adding different regions. I might have a solution if it is possible to do.

I noticed that you are able to have perminant outpost in the game. Can you create perminant forts to the game. If so, add those forts to the regions you want to create. Change the fort models to the city/castle models. for size keep those forts the same size that they are, so you dont use up to much map space. You might even be able to bring back america. You can add units to the forts and if possible you can also add agents as well. I guess alot of scripts have to be created to get it in order.

Unit availablity. Not sure if there is a limit on unit space as well. But if there is. one thought is that you can eliminate all peasant units from the game. Start off with the next level of units that are not peasants. Since there will be no more peasant units you can downgrade cost/upkeep to peasant price and work your way up to balance the cost.

Again not sure if any of this was ever discussed or attempted. but it any ideas can help or make someone try it might benefit us all. thanks again.

[Overlord.ru]

Hello everybody, haven't been here for a long time. Would the latest version be compatible with SS 6.4 if it was installed with BGR II and limited activities, longer assimilation activated?

[Ravenant]

Hello everybody, haven't been here for a long time. Would the latest version be compatible with SS 6.4 if it was installed with BGR II and limited activities, longer assimilation activated?

SSMAP has it own balance system, so It is not compatible with BGR II. About limited activities I'm not really sure. When we release SSMAP 1.0 version, I will talk with another submod leaders, and will propose them a SSMAP version.

[Lifthrasir]

That's even better than my original idea. I understand it would take time and that the priority for now is given to v1.0

If I can help, let me know.

[Lifthrasir]

While waiting for the relase of v1.0, I'm carrying on with my Norwegian campaign under beta v0.6b.

I'm currently in turn 133 (1198 AD). I've conquered so far all independant settlements in Scandinavia, Irland, England, Turku and finally Scotland.

I'm allied with Denmark, France, the Papal States and recently the Kevian Rus.

Since all UK is mine, money is reasonnable (about 5000 to 6000 fl. per turn) but I don't recruit cavalry so far and use mercenaries a lot.
I'm encountering a lot of troubles to develop my settlements in Scandinavia.

England has been destroyed by myself and the Scots.
Novgorod has been destroyed by the Kevian Rus and when they had only Turku left, they started to give me trouble by trying to conquer Visby. So, I conquered Turku to get ride of them.
CS expanded quite well at the start but after the Khwarz have destroyed the Seljuks, they desappeared, attacked by the Fatimids and the Kwarezmian.
Venice has been destroyed by Genoa who also kicked Pisa out of Italy.
Finally, I've destroyed the Scots.

France has expanded like hell. They have France (except Toulouse and Arles), half of Iberia, the Flanders, most of the HRE territories and they have started to expand through Hungary.

The Almoravids have been kicked out of Iberia and Portugal is expanding in North Africa now. Same with Pisa.

Georgia is doing pretty well, taking on ERE slowly in Anatolia. Rûm was down to 2 settlements but since CS have disappeared, they're getting better. But they're just starting a war with the Fatimids.

ERE is getting eaten by Hungary and Serbia in the West and Georgia in the East.

The Kevian Rus have destroyed Novgorog and are looking to the South now, taking slowly on the Cumans.

Aragon expanded well in South of France at the start but France took over finally. They're a FRench Vassal now as HRE down to only 1 settlement.

Leon Castille and Portugal did well by kicking out the Almoravids but they're both getting eaten by France now.

Denmark started to expand in Poland but got stopped quickly. Then Lithuania took advantage on Poland who is done to 1 settlement at present.

Sicily has been quite so far (they conquered only Al-Mahdiya in Tunisia) and the Papal States have conquered Naples and Ancona.

Since the start, there were 3 crusades and 4 or 5 jihads on different targets.

I found 1 mistake: while pointing a HRE general with my cursor, it was written "EMT_HRE_NAMED_CHARACTER_2".

Last point, a few turns ago, my king died. The new king was an usurper and I got the message saying there was a civil war. But nothing change for my settlements or the other generals. How civil wars affect the game?

[Hungarian Hussar]

Hey everyone! Sorry for not being more active and helping recently, I've been busy with the world... but I have downloaded .6 and I've gotta say it's rather challenging (especially since I'm playing VH/VH Byzantines)! I just have one question: Can someone explain why certain buildings give a negative bonus? I mean, I've always understood why the gallows gave a somewhat negative bonus in religious conversion, but also gave a positive bonus to law. But why is it that a shipwright gives a negative bonus to law, or highways give a negative monetary bonus? With this updated game it's tough, especially for the Byzantines in the beginning, to make money... why do many of these buildings now seem to hinder growth or progress?...

[Lifthrasir]

In addition with my previous message, here are some pics of my campaign.

@ Hungarian Hussar, I haven't noticed the negative bonus but may be I got lucky. Also, I don't play in vh/vh (I'm not enough good). In my current campaign, I had to build markets, roads and ports to be able to make reasonnable money.
Also note that the units are a lot more expensive than by the past, especially professional ones and cavalry units. As ERE, you start with some professional units and if you can, I would recomend to disband them and recruit mercenaries for the time you're building a strong economy.
In my current campaign, I haven't used cavalry units so far but I use mercenaries a lot (cheaper and faster to recruit). I'm currently in turn 151 and I just start to make quite good money (about 9000 fl. per turn).
Last point, remember that large kingdoms requier special attention at present regarding the public order overwise you will have settlements entering in rebellion.

[Hungarian Hussar]

Ah I see, well while it isn't visibly noticeable, if you look at the descriptions of buildings certain ones will say "+-150 income" or "+-10% law" which struck me as somewhat bad haha. Another thing about the ERE I'm noticing as a bug: I killed the Sultanate of Rum a few turns in, and ever since the event screen has repeatedly said they are dead, random generals spawn in the Konya province, and since Rum allied with the Great Seljuq Empire shortly before their death, it won't register that their faction is dead and I have no option to ally or anything of the sort. I feel like someone had this problem in the past as I was reading old posts, but I can't seem to find it...

[Lifthrasir]

I had that problem (event message appearing each turn) and have mentioned it several times. I don't know if that problem has been solved. I also had the same problem in a previous beta version, playing s Pisa and after I destroyed Sicily until I found a couple of Sicilian merchands and 3 Sicilian priests hiding in South of Palermo. I had to recruit an assassin to kill them to get ride of the event message. May it is something similar with Rûm.

Also, I guess that the "+ or -" means it is a relative value between 0 and the mentioned value. Ravenant should be able to give you more details as he's the one "responsible" for these changes.

What I like the beta 0.6b is that a faction almost destroyed can re-emerge and that a large faction is not the strongest one for all the game duration. Look what's happening to France in my campaign.

[Hungarian Hussar]

I had that problem (event message appearing each turn) and have mentioned it several times. I don't know if that problem has been solved. I also had the same problem in a previous beta version, playing s Pisa and after I destroyed Sicily until I found a couple of Sicilian merchands and 3 Sicilian priests hiding in South of Palermo. I had to recruit an assassin to kill them to get ride of the event message. May it is something similar with Rûm.

Also, I guess that the "+ or -" means it is a relative value between 0 and the mentioned value. Ravenant should be able to give you more details as he's the one "responsible" for these changes.

What I like the beta 0.6b is that a faction almost destroyed can re-emerge and that a large faction is not the strongest one for all the game duration. Look what's happening to France in my campaign.

I figured it was some rebel hiding somewhere... the only problem is I'm not sure who's left! I have several brigand armies in Anatolia, but any remaining Rum armies I destroyed... though on the bright side, I can train my units on the constantly-spawning Rum rebel generals!

[GiddeeUpp]

Starting a game as Sicily now that i have some spare time. excited to get going!

[Lifthrasir]

The spamming units are rebels or Rûm? I'm not sure to get the right picture.
If they're rebels, there's nothing wrong and I guess you need to increase your military presence in the area and the public order.
If they're Rûm, there's definitively something wrong.
Can you post a pic?

[Ichon]

I think Ravenant has addressed the repeating notification messages but if not I'll remind him- the costs associated with buildings are due to ongoing maintaining as there isn't something for nothing. Roads require repair and active patrols to keep brigandage down, etc. You'll see that its still quite worth it to build most of the buildings but... not necessarily for every province. If the population is small- the return for a new roads won't be there economically for quite some time but to help swift movement of armies maybe it is still a good idea? Some provinces were backwaters afterall.

The costs of mercenaries will be going up in 1.0- in the last beta only the EDU costs were changed not also the mercenary costs. So using mercenaries was a very cheap strategy but won't be quite so cheap unless you win alot of battles. As a small poor faction mercenaries probably won't be your best option. Stick with your best infantry and BG as your cavalry.

Most important thing to know is that M-H-VH actually will mean more with changed economy. Affording huge armies right away is going to be tough on any level but if you avoid alot of cavalry(or at least only have them in cities as most knights have free upkeep) you can still afford large armies. BG's and light cavalry are the best alternative. Merchants will also help more than before and developing mines(tolls and trade administration) is the fastest path for most factions to large incomes. On H and VH AI will be getting significant monetary boosts though not so much that even with only 1 province 4 stacks can be supported but AI will always have more armies than layer on VH.

It would be nice to have an aggressive AI without it getting large monetary boosts as that is the most noticeable lack I find on medium that AI just sits and waits for players attack. I am not sure how much that is a function of military size but ideally H will be getting small money bonus but be more aggressive while VH should force players to maximize economies and allocate forces very carefully. The main focus for v1.0 is removing bugs and getting core economy and rosters relatively balanced. Some small tweaks later are expected I think.

Anyway- I've been distracted with RTW2 announcement and enjoying a few days off for my summer before going back to school. FP and Ravenant were also gone/busy but I think everyone is back now.

[Lifthrasir]

Many thanks for the explanation Ichon. Any input regarding how the civil wars affect the game? I had several event messages about them (my faction included) but I haven't noticed any change. I was expected my public order going down, even some rebellion but nothing happened.

V1.0 looks promising. I look forwards to try it.

[GiddeeUpp]

@Ichon so what kind of bonus economy scripts does the ai get in H/VH, some bonus but just ALOT less than in vanilla ss 6.4?

[Ichon]

@Ichon so what kind of bonus economy scripts does the ai get in H/VH, some bonus but just ALOT less than in vanilla ss 6.4?

AI gets same monetary bonus as in 6.4 SS but due to other bonus in factors of population and trade bonus of buildings it actually stacks less. I haven't seen exact changes Ravenant intended but he was thinking to restore most of the 6.4 bonus because in last beta the AI did not behave much different on the various levels and was disappointing opponent on VH.

[GiddeeUpp]

Also, tried it three times just to check, but playing as sicily, pisa goes straight for north africa and leaves both its cities with only 1 unit of defence. Makes it rather easy to get a large hold on italy early...

Edit: Not to mention that all Pisa's armies go rebel since they end up having no cities. Maybe make them less aggressive, true that Sicily will always get North Africa with player but at least it'd make it harder for player to get big hold on italy so early?

[Lifthrasir]

Also, tried it three times just to check, but playing as sicily, pisa goes straight for north africa and leaves both its cities with only 1 unit of defence. Makes it rather easy to get a large hold on italy early...

Edit: Not to mention that all Pisa's armies go rebel since they end up having no cities. Maybe make them less aggressive, true that Sicily will always get North Africa with player but at least it'd make it harder for player to get big hold on italy so early?

Usually, at the start, there's a "competition" between Pisa and Sicily for the North Africa. If Pisa takes control of North Africa, then most of the time Sicily tries to expand in Greece.

Hi,

Not sure if this was reported or not, but playing 0.6b and I get this name error sometimes.

Yes, I've seen the same with a HRE General. I mentioned it on the previous page (31st of July). Thanks to confirm that I'm not the only one encountering that problem

@ Ichon, agree with you regarding how the AI acts on M/M difficulty. It is quite passive as you said.