Is Slavery (pre CW) Americas fault?

[Removed_user_012521]

Im tired of everyone pointing out Americas slavery problem as if it was our causing, our problem, and our bane. This is how I see it:

My first point against the idea that slavery is americas fault is that the Americas were originaly settled by Europeans - who brought slavery. Let me elaborate. When the first europeans came to settle the Americas they brought diseases unknown to the Native American population, these diseases killed off nearly 90% of the native american population resulting in a huge labour shortage. Now the crops that were grown in the equatorial zones of the Americas require a lot of labour, and with no native labour Plantations had to look elsewhere - Africa. The subsequent re settling of Africans in America stalled the growth of such areas and guranteed an agricultural economy. On a side note a very important piece of information is that slavery required the idea of racial suppieriority among those who practiced it - this dates back to the earliest days of settlement and well before the War for Independance - meaning that those who originaly develped these notions where Europeans and Creols.
This is where the difference between north and south beggins. In the north the climate was different and prhohibited the gorwth of a lot of the cash crops grown in the south - essentialy there was no need for plantations and no need for slavery. Because of this many free labourers (forced out of work in the south) settled in the north providing a large labour force that allowed the growth of industries. Because the north was free and had no slavery there was no growth of the notion of racial suppiriority amoing whites, infact the north looked down at the barbaric practices of the south and the aboloshinist movement was started.
Given this information alone, the roots of slavery are clearly traced back to Europeans and there demands for early cashcrops resulted in what became racism in America. Some would argue that Europe was made up of noble countries pointing out fact like Britain was first to abolish slavery. They see that fact as a great acheivment - which its not.
Remember that Europe after the agricultural and industrial revolution already had a ready labour force that did not require slavery and that the crops grown in europe were not as labour intensive as the Cash Crops os America, so it is not suprising that slavery in Europe - if there ever was any other than Serfdom - was not widespread, nor based on race either, and did not affect the gorwth of Economy and Society in Europe. What many people have claimed as a big step and proof of soial suppiriotity of Europe, is in affect wothless - Europe abolished an institution it never had. Whereas the US fought a war the cost the lives of 580,000 to abolish it.

Given this argumeant can one attack the US over Slavery when its roots can be traced back to Europe?

[Ahlerich]

well in all europe, as far as i know, slavery didnt exist anymore at the time it existed in america. so you probably can wonder why, especially in the land of the free, slavery was allowed for so long.

[Ahiga]

well in all europe, as far as i know, slavery didnt exist anymore at the time it existed in america. so you probably can wonder why, especially in the land of the free, slavery was allowed for so long.

Slavery didn't exist in europe when it existed in America?

You mean slaves being used in the Americas, before there was a formation of a "united states"? Because if not actually used in europe at this period (Essentially from the start of their colonizing of the new world), then they definately had a hand in the selling and importing of slaves. In fact, in my history class this year, it was shown that the largest percentage of slaves in the trade actually went to Brazil, and then the carribean, and finally North america (I think).

So I think your statement is incorrect. I do not know the definate date in which slavery ended in Europe (excluding the Ottomans? ), but have heard statements that it was in use in the time of Charlemange, so I think the idea that it ended with the end of the Roman Empire (In the west) was incorrect on my part. Whether or not slaves were actually used in Europe between 1492 and 1776, they [europe] had a fundemental part in the slave trade, and are by no means without sin.

[Removed_user_012521]

Humm, let's see: so some adults were opressing the black people in USA because the Europeans had developed the theory of the racial superiority of the white men?

Exactly. Where in America was slavery most prevelant? In the South. How did early Europeans and later there american descendants justify slavery? The idea of social suppiriority that was developed by out European ancestors.

[Ahlerich]

Slavery didn't exist in europe when it existed in America?

You mean slaves being used in the Americas, before there was a formation of a "united states"? Because if not actually used in europe at this period (Essentially from the start of their colonizing of the new world), then they definately had a hand in the selling and importing of slaves. In fact, in my history class this year, it was shown that the largest percentage of slaves in the trade actually went to Brazil, and then the carribean, and finally North america (I think).

So I think your statement is incorrect. I do not know the definate date in which slavery ended in Europe (excluding the Ottomans? ), but have heard statements that it was in use in the time of Charlemange, so I think the idea that it ended with the end of the Roman Empire (In the west) was incorrect on my part. Whether or not slaves were actually used in Europe between 1492 and 1776, they [europe] had a fundemental part in the slave trade, and are by no means without sin.

i know that europeans made money with buying slaves in africa and selling them in america. slavery however was not tolerated anymore on the european mainland. of course individuals used the opportunity to make money. still there were no slave owners in europe, because it was not tolerated anymore. that is fact.

[Habelo]

Land of the free, HAHAHA that crack me up...
My gold fish is more free!

Serios thought, slaves where visible in america(:wub:) so mayby that had some connection?

[Musha]

Land of the free, HAHAHA that crack me up...
My gold fish is more free!

Serios thought, slaves where visible in america(:wub:) so mayby that had some connection?

dID YOU SAY :wub:


How come i'm the only one who cares

[deno59]

Land of the free, HAHAHA that crack me up...
My gold fish is more free!

Serios thought, slaves where visible in america(:wub:) so mayby that had some connection?

Hey watch your language, that is a cruel word to say. For your Info America is a lot more free then it was 100 years ago. It is a lot better than your country will ever be.

[Dromikaites]

One can point out that:
1) The southern states started the civil war because lots of people there thought it's their right to own slaves. In other words, the citizens of those states thought it's OK some human beings have no rights. And that they had the right to deprive the others of their rights. Why exactly are the Europeans responsible for that? Did US cease to export cotton after abolishing slavery? Did Brasil cease to export coffee after abolishing (peacefully) slavery?
2) Mexico lost Texas because the Texians/Texans refused to accept the Mexican laws, including the one about abolishing slavery. So the Texans thought is their right to revolt against the Mexican "opression" while in the same time they thought it's OK to orpess their slaves. Again, why is it Europe's fault that the Mexicans decided to abolish slavery and as a result lost a big chunk of their country in favor of the "land of the free"?
3) Why is Europe's fault that well into the 20th century the black people in some states were discriminated legally?
4) Why is it Europe's fault that some people in the US still exibit the Confederate flag? That is the flag of those who went to war in order to protect their right to deprive other human beings of all their rights. It would be like the Europeans were parading with the flag of the Nazi Germany . I give you that in the opressive Europe if you parade with the Nazi flag you do go to jail

[Removed_user_012521]

1) The southern states started the civil war because lots of people there thought it's their right to own slaves. In other words, the citizens of those states thought it's OK some human beings have no rights. And that they had the right to deprive the others of their rights. Why exactly are the Europeans responsible for that? Did US cease to export cotton after abolishing slavery? Did Brasil cease to export coffee after abolishing (peacefully) slavery?

Because they were the origninal people to start the institution of Slavery. Because they, to justify the brutal practice, had to develope the idea of racial suppieriority (a largely European Idead I might add), and over a couple hundred years such an idea became a widespread belief. Basicly we inherited the problem and Europe caused it.

2) Mexico lost Texas because the Texians/Texans refused to accept the Mexican laws, including the one about abolishing slavery. So the Texans thought is their right to revolt against the Mexican "opression" while in the same time they thought it's OK to orpess their slaves. Again, why is it Europe's fault that the Mexicans decided to abolish slavery and as a result lost a big chunk of their country in favor of the "land of the free"?

Have you considerd that Mexico already had a war of independance? The idea of racial suppiriority was held by those with direct ties to Europe i.e white people. Such as Southerners and Creols.

3) Why is Europe's fault that well into the 20th century the black people in some states were discriminated legally?

Because those who were doing the discriminating were victims of the idea that Early Europeans developed. It all goes back to Europeans, not only slavery but Racism in the South too.

Why is it Europe's fault that some people in the US still exibit the Confederate flag? That is the flag of those who went to war in order to protect their right to deprive other human beings of all their rights. It would be like the Europeans were parading with the flag of the Nazi Germany . I give you that in the opressive Europe if you parade with the Nazi flag you do go to jail

See my above answer and you guys are trying to supress your history that badly?

[Dromikaites]

Humm, let's see: so some adults were opressing the black people in USA because the Europeans had developed the theory of the racial superiority of the white men?

You know what? The bad thing about being an adult is you are responsible for your own decisions Once you're over 18 if you do a bad thing because you've read a book written by me, you would undoubtely be held responsible while I might get away with it because of the right to free speech.

[whookidd]

Im tired of everyone pointing out Americas slavery problem as if it was our causing, our problem, and our bane. This is how I see it:

My first point against the idea that slavery is americas fault is that the Americas were originaly settled by Europeans - who brought slavery. Let me elaborate. When the first europeans came to settle the Americas they brought diseases unknown to the Native American population, these diseases killed off nearly 90% of the native american population resulting in a huge labour shortage. Now the crops that were grown in the equatorial zones of the Americas require a lot of labour, and with no native labour Plantations had to look elsewhere - Africa. The subsequent re settling of Africans in America stalled the growth of such areas and guranteed an agricultural economy. On a side note a very important piece of information is that slavery required the idea of racial suppieriority among those who practiced it - this dates back to the earliest days of settlement and well before the War for Independance - meaning that those who originaly develped these notions where Europeans and Creols.
This is where the difference between north and south beggins. In the north the climate was different and prhohibited the gorwth of a lot of the cash crops grown in the south - essentialy there was no need for plantations and no need for slavery. Because of this many free labourers (forced out of work in the south) settled in the north providing a large labour force that allowed the growth of industries. Because the north was free and had no slavery there was no growth of the notion of racial suppiriority amoing whites, infact the north looked down at the barbaric practices of the south and the aboloshinist movement was started.
Given this information alone, the roots of slavery are clearly traced back to Europeans and there demands for early cashcrops resulted in what became racism in America. Some would argue that Europe was made up of noble countries pointing out fact like Britain was first to abolish slavery. They see that fact as a great acheivment - which its not.
Remember that Europe after the agricultural and industrial revolution already had a ready labour force that did not require slavery and that the crops grown in europe were not as labour intensive as the Cash Crops os America, so it is not suprising that slavery in Europe - if there ever was any other than Serfdom - was not widespread, nor based on race either, and did not affect the gorwth of Economy and Society in Europe. What many people have claimed as a big step and proof of soial suppiriotity of Europe, is in affect wothless - Europe abolished an institution it never had. Whereas the US fought a war the cost the lives of 580,000 to abolish it.

Given this argumeant can one attack the US over Slavery when its roots can be traced back to Europe?

I am American and I do not put blame on europeans for slavery. Dont blame it on europe they had nothing to do with it. The americans came up with the idea of slaves to america, I say American instead of European American because at that time frame, majority of the white people in american where born In America no Europe. France never had slaves in the first place, they didnt believe in it, Germany as we see it now wasnt around at that time. Arabs and America both stoled the most slaves from Africa, Europe has no where near the number taken by Americans and Arabs. Britain had slaves at one point but they were free and they were treated a lot better than the slaves in America. Millions of africans died during travel through the middle passage, which were caused by americans, stealing masses and masses of africans to America, they stoles masses of them because they knew that some would die on the way there How Cruel. White Americans even after slavery still counted Black Americans as half of a Man How Cruel is that. Black Brits are not treated like that in the 1890 or 1960 as less than a man. Brits after slavery didnt ride of their horses killing Black americans only a few days after they were no longer slaves anymore How Cruel is that. Europeans didnt lynch africans anytime they felt like it or felt that a white woman shouldnt mess with a black guy. No where in history has a race been so mistreated because of there racial background. Majority of black africans are mixed with Native American Indians because of slavery so they have the birth right to this land, even though they never asked to come here in the first place. Slavery started over 3,000 years ago, but it was never so extreme as it was in America in no time of history. Before I forget when Britian took over South Africa there was still slavery in America and they needed labor workers badly what they did was they offered Africans tribes men guns for there work. They could have easily made them slaves because all the had was spears, but the brits use brains over bronze and gave them guns for there work and the work was good and everyone was happy and by doing that they also got rid of old guns they no longer needed anyway. I am not talking about before Britain or about the Danish aafrians. I am talking after britian took over. DONT BLAME EUROPE FOR AMERICAS PROBLEMS.

[RZZZA]

Slavery has existed pretty much forever, since the first human wars, I'd say. How is it rational to blame slavery solely on Americans or Europeans when the hebrews were slaves of the pharoah far before "erurope" or "america" in the traditional sense even existed? Slaves were treated as spoils of war, so I'd say slavery has been around at least as long as wars have been...

[Ahiga]

I am American and I do not put blame on europeans for slavery. Dont blame it on europe they had nothing to do with it. The americans came up with the idea of slaves to america, I say American instead of European American because at that time frame, majority of the white people in american where born In America no Europe. France never had slaves in the first place, they didnt believe in it, Germany as we see it now wasnt around at that time. Arabs and America both stoled the most slaves from Africa, Europe has no where near the number taken by Americans and Arabs. Britain had slaves at one point but they were free and they were treated a lot better than the slaves in America. Millions of africans died during travel through the middle passage, which were caused by americans, stealing masses and masses of africans to America, they stoles masses of them because they knew that some would die on the way there How Cruel. White Americans even after slavery still counted Black Americans as half of a Man How Cruel is that. Black Brits are not treated like that in the 1890 or 1960 as less than a man. Brits after slavery didnt ride of their horses killing Black americans only a few days after they were no longer slaves anymore How Cruel is that. Europeans didnt lynch africans anytime they felt like it or felt that a white woman shouldnt mess with a black guy. No where in history has a race been so mistreated because of there racial background. Majority of black africans are mixed with Native American Indians because of slavery so they have the birth right to this land, even though they never asked to come here in the first place. Slavery started over 3,000 years ago, but it was never so extreme as it was in America in no time of history. Before I forget when Britian took over South Africa there was still slavery in America and they needed labor workers badly what they did was they offered Africans tribes men guns for there work. They could have easily made them slaves because all the had was spears, but the brits use brains over bronze and gave them guns for there work and the work was good and everyone was happy and by doing that they also got rid of old guns they no longer needed anyway. I am not talking about before Britain or about the Danish aafrians. I am talking after britian took over. DONT BLAME EUROPE FOR AMERICAS PROBLEMS.

You are misguided. Thats as nice a term as I can put on this.

The Slave trade began as something of a European Business. Not American. There was no such thing as American until the revolution separated the Colonists from England. Up until then, and somewhat even after it, they considered themselves British Citizens.




Want proof?

Portugal - http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.../aa101101a.htm

There was a very small market for African slaves as domestic workers in Europe, and as workers on the sugar plantations of the Mediterranean. However, the Portuguese found they could make considerable amounts of gold transporting slaves from one trading post to another, along the Atlantic coast of Africa. Muslim merchants had an insatiable appetite for slaves, which were used as porters on the trans-Saharan routes (with a high mortality rate), and for sale in the Islamic Empire.

The Portuguese found Muslim merchants entrenched along the African coast as far as the Blight of Benin. The slave coast, as the Blight of Benin was known, was reached by the Portuguese at the start of the 1470's. It was not until they reached the Kongo coast in the 1480's that they outdistanced Muslim trading territory.

England - http://www.antislavery.org/breakingt...dkingdom.shtml

The British trade in African slaves began with Sir John Hawkins's illegal shipment of slaves to the Spanish West Indies in 1562. In its heyday in the latter half of the eighteenth century, Britain accounted for half of all the slaves transported across the Atlantic Ocean. The bulk of the trade was to the West Indies, Jamaica in particular, amounting to more than 1.6 million people in total. By the end of the 18th century, Britain had become the largest and most accomplished slaving nation in the world.

Major European Powers:
http://website.lineone.net/~stkittsnevis/slavery.htm

"Portugal, Spain, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden."

I know, though I am not wanting to go and find the proof, that the largest collection of slaves in the Triangle trade were set in Brazil and the Carribean, primarily within the Spanish colonies. It's one explaination for why there is a large amount of dark, 'african' skin and features in Brazil and some of the Carribean. So it's far from solely or primarily America's fault. Those that practiced in the slave trade, from the European powers to the Muslim Traders and African Kings, are all at fault. I'd figure only those that were actually enslaved had no part to play in the blame.

I found those links in a half-assed search. I am sure that with more research into reliable sources, I could find it. Europe was not without sin in the slave trade. That's the honest truth. America just took longer in abandoning it, and its a point being hammered to me in a class taught by someone who is very 'into' the role of africans in the history of America (American civ history class for 11th grade), that the north was not the good and the south the outright evil. The sailing business up in New England and the regions surrounding it, according to my teachings in said class, paritisipated in shipping slaves.

In short, Its not as easy as saying one group or any other was good or evil. All those that participated in the slave trade were sinful, and evil'. In their attempts to abolish the practice, they were able to redeem themselves, but it's not as easy as saying the group that stopped it the slowest is evil.

And it is interesting that America gets the sole blame. I've been trying to find the proof behind it, but I believe that the ottomans and other Muslim powers were practicing the slave trade into the 1800s. Theirs was not racially motivated, I think, which is one reason which perhaps the Slavery of Europe and America is the most 'evil'.

[deno59]

You are misguided. Thats as nice a term as I can put on this.

The Slave trade began as something of a European Business. Not American. There was no such thing as American until the revolution separated the Colonists from England. Up until then, and somewhat even after it, they considered themselves British Citizens.




Want proof?

Portugal - http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.../aa101101a.htm

There was a very small market for African slaves as domestic workers in Europe, and as workers on the sugar plantations of the Mediterranean. However, the Portuguese found they could make considerable amounts of gold transporting slaves from one trading post to another, along the Atlantic coast of Africa. Muslim merchants had an insatiable appetite for slaves, which were used as porters on the trans-Saharan routes (with a high mortality rate), and for sale in the Islamic Empire.

The Portuguese found Muslim merchants entrenched along the African coast as far as the Blight of Benin. The slave coast, as the Blight of Benin was known, was reached by the Portuguese at the start of the 1470's. It was not until they reached the Kongo coast in the 1480's that they outdistanced Muslim trading territory.

England - http://www.antislavery.org/breakingt...dkingdom.shtml

The British trade in African slaves began with Sir John Hawkins's illegal shipment of slaves to the Spanish West Indies in 1562. In its heyday in the latter half of the eighteenth century, Britain accounted for half of all the slaves transported across the Atlantic Ocean. The bulk of the trade was to the West Indies, Jamaica in particular, amounting to more than 1.6 million people in total. By the end of the 18th century, Britain had become the largest and most accomplished slaving nation in the world.

Major European Powers:
http://website.lineone.net/~stkittsnevis/slavery.htm

"Portugal, Spain, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden."

I know, though I am not wanting to go and find the proof, that the largest collection of slaves in the Triangle trade were set in Brazil and the Carribean, primarily within the Spanish colonies. It's one explaination for why there is a large amount of dark, 'african' skin and features in Brazil and some of the Carribean. So it's far from solely or primarily America's fault. Those that practiced in the slave trade, from the European powers to the Muslim Traders and African Kings, are all at fault. I'd figure only those that were actually enslaved had no part to play in the blame.

I found those links in a half-assed search. I am sure that with more research into reliable sources, I could find it. Europe was not without sin in the slave trade. That's the honest truth. America just took longer in abandoning it, and its a point being hammered to me in a class taught by someone who is very 'into' the role of africans in the history of America (American civ history class for 11th grade), that the north was not the good and the south the outright evil. The sailing business up in New England and the regions surrounding it, according to my teachings in said class, paritisipated in shipping slaves.

In short, Its not as easy as saying one group or any other was good or evil. All those that participated in the slave trade were sinful, and evil'. In their attempts to abolish the practice, they were able to redeem themselves, but it's not as easy as saying the group that stopped it the slowest is evil.

And it is interesting that America gets the sole blame. I've been trying to find the proof behind it, but I believe that the ottomans and other Muslim powers were practicing the slave trade into the 1800s. Theirs was not racially motivated, I think, which is one reason which perhaps the Slavery of Europe and America is the most 'evil'.

This is Whookidd, not deno59 talking


No, You are misguided I did not say europe didnt have slaves or make slaves, re-read what I wrote then comment on what I wrote. If you dont know anything of history dont talk. Also read books, dont look online for your facts. It might be the 21st Century but books still have a lot of knowledge. The most evil slavery is Arab and America. But slaves wasnt badly treated like the ones in American because there was a slavery revolt in Baghdad, and the slaves own that city for awhile and it took every muslim country in The middleeast to supress the africans. I know there was americans before the independence that is why I didnt say European Americans, I said Americans, then when I was discussing after the Civil war I seperate them into White and Black Americans. Americans where their own nation they had a choice of having slaves or not and they chose to make slaves. You cant blame that on Europeans. It Americans on fault for what they did not Europeans. Buy some books and read, Half ass knowledge will get you know where. I am saying that nicely.

[Removed_user_012521]

No, You are misguided I did not say europe didnt have slaves or make slaves, re-read what I wrote then comment on what I wrote. If you dont know anything of history dont talk. Also read books, dont look online for your facts. It might be the 21st Century but books still have a lot of knowledge. The most evil slavery is Arab and America. But slaves wasnt badly treated like the ones in American because there was a slavery revolt in Baghdad, and the slaves own that city for awhile and it took every muslim country in The middleeast to supress the africans. I know there was americans before the independence that is why I didnt say European Americans, I said Americans, then when I was discussing after the Civil war I seperate them into White and Black Americans. Americans where their own nation they had a choice of having slaves or not and they chose to make slaves. You cant blame that on Europeans. It Americans on fault for what they did not Europeans. Buy some books and read, Half ass knowledge will get you know where. I am saying that nicely.

Dude:
1) you don't need to be so agreesive
2) learn proper (or at least understandable) grammar
3) present your ideas clearly so that we can understand it. Remember people read as if it was someone else talking, so use commas and don't use run on sentances.

Now did you read nothing of what I wrote? I clearly stated that before america was america or even a couple generations had past since the original settlement Europeans brought slaves to Central America and the Southern US. I then clearly stated that to condone such behaviour Europeans grew and idea of racial suppieriority. This also neatly goes along with idead floting around at that time such as Socail Darwainsm and "White Mans Burden" ect. I then clearly stated why European slavery had such an impact on the Americas but not on Europe itself.
Please if you have a problem with what Ive said state your problem and Elaborate rather that just bluntly say Im wrong, explain the evils of slavery, and then go rambling on about why someone didn't mention books. We don't normaly mention books on online threads like this becuase you possibly may not have the books or we may know something and want to prove it to you.

As you can hopefully see the civil war was not merely about slavery. Slavery was just one of many factors causing the war. From the creation of the country distinct separations of culture were created.

I think most of us had already know that but nevertheless while abolishing Slavery was not the driving force behind the war it did play a significant role leading up to the war. Also I don't think anyone here was debating the motives of the CW, the importance comes from the fight between North and South, and the fact that the CW resulted in an ednign to slavery.

[deno59]

Dude:
1) you don't need to be so agreesive
2) learn proper (or at least understandable) grammar
3) present your ideas clearly so that we can understand it. Remember people read as if it was someone else talking, so use commas and don't use run on sentances.

Now did you read nothing of what I wrote? I clearly stated that before america was america or even a couple generations had past since the original settlement Europeans brought slaves to Central America and the Southern US. I then clearly stated that to condone such behaviour Europeans grew and idea of racial suppieriority. This also neatly goes along with idead floting around at that time such as Socail Darwainsm and "White Mans Burden" ect. I then clearly stated why European slavery had such an impact on the Americas but not on Europe itself.
Please if you have a problem with what Ive said state your problem and Elaborate rather that just bluntly say Im wrong, explain the evils of slavery, and then go rambling on about why someone didn't mention books. We don't normaly mention books on online threads like this becuase you possibly may not have the books or we may know something and want to prove it to you.





I think most of us had already know that but nevertheless while abolishing Slavery was not the driving force behind the war it did play a significant role leading up to the war. Also I don't think anyone here was debating the motives of the CW, the importance comes from the fight between North and South, and the fact that the CW resulted in an ednign to slavery.

Evan_kikla

I am not talking to you, this has nothing to do with you I am having debate with someone else who quoted me earlier, he said something rude to me so I returned the favor, I am sorry if you thought it was for you but it wasnt for you. I never talk rude to anyone unless they say it back to me. But if you like to debate then I would love to debate with you. I can use run-on sentences all I want to. If ya cant understand than that is your fault. You live in a country that doesnt speak english for many years then comment on my grammar.

[deno59]

You are misguided. Thats as nice a term as I can put on this.

The Slave trade began as something of a European Business. Not American. There was no such thing as American until the revolution separated the Colonists from England. Up until then, and somewhat even after it, they considered themselves British Citizens.




Want proof?

Portugal - http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.../aa101101a.htm

There was a very small market for African slaves as domestic workers in Europe, and as workers on the sugar plantations of the Mediterranean. However, the Portuguese found they could make considerable amounts of gold transporting slaves from one trading post to another, along the Atlantic coast of Africa. Muslim merchants had an insatiable appetite for slaves, which were used as porters on the trans-Saharan routes (with a high mortality rate), and for sale in the Islamic Empire.

The Portuguese found Muslim merchants entrenched along the African coast as far as the Blight of Benin. The slave coast, as the Blight of Benin was known, was reached by the Portuguese at the start of the 1470's. It was not until they reached the Kongo coast in the 1480's that they outdistanced Muslim trading territory.

England - http://www.antislavery.org/breakingt...dkingdom.shtml

The British trade in African slaves began with Sir John Hawkins's illegal shipment of slaves to the Spanish West Indies in 1562. In its heyday in the latter half of the eighteenth century, Britain accounted for half of all the slaves transported across the Atlantic Ocean. The bulk of the trade was to the West Indies, Jamaica in particular, amounting to more than 1.6 million people in total. By the end of the 18th century, Britain had become the largest and most accomplished slaving nation in the world.

Major European Powers:
http://website.lineone.net/~stkittsnevis/slavery.htm

"Portugal, Spain, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden."

I know, though I am not wanting to go and find the proof, that the largest collection of slaves in the Triangle trade were set in Brazil and the Carribean, primarily within the Spanish colonies. It's one explaination for why there is a large amount of dark, 'african' skin and features in Brazil and some of the Carribean. So it's far from solely or primarily America's fault. Those that practiced in the slave trade, from the European powers to the Muslim Traders and African Kings, are all at fault. I'd figure only those that were actually enslaved had no part to play in the blame.

I found those links in a half-assed search. I am sure that with more research into reliable sources, I could find it. Europe was not without sin in the slave trade. That's the honest truth. America just took longer in abandoning it, and its a point being hammered to me in a class taught by someone who is very 'into' the role of africans in the history of America (American civ history class for 11th grade), that the north was not the good and the south the outright evil. The sailing business up in New England and the regions surrounding it, according to my teachings in said class, paritisipated in shipping slaves.

In short, Its not as easy as saying one group or any other was good or evil. All those that participated in the slave trade were sinful, and evil'. In their attempts to abolish the practice, they were able to redeem themselves, but it's not as easy as saying the group that stopped it the slowest is evil.

And it is interesting that America gets the sole blame. I've been trying to find the proof behind it, but I believe that the ottomans and other Muslim powers were practicing the slave trade into the 1800s. Theirs was not racially motivated, I think, which is one reason which perhaps the Slavery of Europe and America is the most 'evil'.

Sorry if I sounded a little Rude bad day today. I am not blaming America for slaves, but people blame europe no one is to blame it is all upon people what they wish to do. The country of france never believed in slaves so they never had any. Brazil wasnt a spanish colonies, it was a portugese colony. Well if you want to know why the carribean is so dark was because alot of black Americans migrated to the Carribean during and after slavery. Haiti well they get the Europeans out of that country and they also kicked out anyone who had Europeans blood in them, that is why they are dark and they are full blood african descent. The Domicans are the mixed ones which share the island with the haitians. If it will make you feel better during the revolutional War there was a black American that was from the island of Haiti and the Americans trained him and a group of haitians how to fight, these guys were a gift from the spainsh to america, well this man was trained good and he went back to haiti and started a rebellion and he Won and haiti was free. But Europe at that time was very evil they conquered and destroyed many nations, the ones who did the most harm to the world is Spanish, but look at them now. They are nothing anymore, but they were also conquered by other countries as well. It is all part of life what happens then happens now and always. War is in our blood, greed is in are blood, pain and love is in our blood. To conquer and become a legend in a country is in many men blood. To seek revenge is in our blood. It is all part of life, as soon as you figure that out you will be at peace with yourself. It happen 3,000 years ago, it happen 2,000 years ago and it just happen 200 years ago. If there is no enemies outside of our country then we will find them inside.

[Skyhigh]

you can't blame slavery in pre civil war America on the United States
slavery was around before it was created

[Legione]

you can't blame slavery in pre civil war America on the United States
slavery was around before it was created

Exactly. Those people were simply products of their time, who is to say what our stance on slavery would have been had we been alive during that period. Almost everything is a product of it's time, and America and slavery were one of them. Slaves were used by the Spanish to cultivate resources in the new world before England got there, we were continuing a effective and immoral procedure that produced lots of income.