TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

[RaikiTaka]

The start witha yari dojo. If you get something else then TROM3 isn't properly installed or there is a conflict with another mod.

Ok, I reinstalled and it worked fine Thanks Yarkis!

[jetlee81]

Ai spwn WAY WAY too many archers. can you balance the yari/archer abit. not talking about the samuris just the peasants

[Totalheadache]

just a question regarding 2 aor units. kono samurai have exaclty the same stats as normal daisho yet cost more upkeep. also togo yari sam same stats but less upkeep.

shouldnt the stats be diff?

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

just a question regarding 2 aor units. kono samurai have exaclty the same stats as normal daisho yet cost more upkeep. also togo yari sam same stats but less upkeep.

shouldnt the stats be diff?

All AOR units are cheaper in recruitment and upkeep then standard units.

[Totalheadache]

All AOR units are cheaper in recruitment and upkeep then standard units.

my bad.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

The new tech tree for the next version. What's new and what could it be?

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

The new tech tree for the next version. What's new and what could it be?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Third row under Chi... second column

I'll guess that it's a Zen Buddhism progression, as the middle symbol is 'zen', the empty circle may symbolize enlightenment/nothing and the first is perhaps representative of the "path". Or am I way out there

[[G-Shock]]

Uhm... the tooltip doesn't work... lol

But, Yarkis, we could use a horse basic tech in bushido... it takes a lifetime to develop Form...

[uos_spo6]

it takes a lifetime to develop Form...

Word to that.

An early buffer skill for my steads would be spectacular!

On another note, I maul everything with the nagae-yari ashigaru (the advanced spear ashi's with 240 men per unit). Don't get me wrong, I do love the carnage but they may be kind of over powered with the huge difference in unit size especially. I realize they are meant to show a decrease in the gap between samurai and ashigaru in the later period but they render samurai melee units completely obsolete in all ways. I tend to stop producing samurai at all once I can train these. I've never seen one rout yet.

In a region with a Castle and decent unit perk buildings they come out with an ATTACK of 8, a DEFENSE of 16 and ARMOUR of 3-5. Factor in charge bonus', morale and what have you etc.

Maybe dropping them to 200 like regular Ashi Yari would make them not quite so invincible without losing near par relevance compared to Samurai fighters? just a thought

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Third row under Chi... second column

I'll guess that it's a Zen Buddhism progression, as the middle symbol is 'zen', the empty circle may symbolize enlightenment/nothing and the first is perhaps representative of the "path". Or am I way out there

We have a winner...

Word to that.

An early buffer skill for my steads would be spectacular!

On another note, I maul everything with the nagae-yari ashigaru (the advanced spear ashi's with 240 men per unit). Don't get me wrong, I do love the carnage but they may be kind of over powered with the huge difference in unit size especially. I realize they are meant to show a decrease in the gap between samurai and ashigaru in the later period but they render samurai melee units completely obsolete in all ways. I tend to stop producing samurai at all once I can train these. I've never seen one rout yet.

In a region with a Castle and decent unit perk buildings they come out with an ATTACK of 8, a DEFENSE of 16 and ARMOUR of 3-5. Factor in charge bonus', morale and what have you etc.

Maybe dropping them to 200 like regular Ashi Yari would make them not quite so invincible without losing near par relevance compared to Samurai fighters? just a thought

Cavarly get all the bonuses from the weapons techs (for example yari cavalry from the yari tech tree).

I think reducing the nagae-yari ashigaru to 200 men is a good idea. It makes it easier to compare units, and spearwall is a very strong if not overpowered ability. I will also raise the research costs for the ashigaru tech branch, since you get more bonuses out of it then researchinga weapons tech branch.

[SgtLong]

Hi,

One great addition to your mod would be the additional general skills battle wise like second wind etc. More base units to start the game would be great! Still sticks and bows with samurai. Also mercenary units how does that even work?

[Vespidian]

I have a query about the campaign AI if anyone could advise me. I started a campaign as Oda on very hard and have found the ai to be passive to the point it's not really worth continuing any further. Saito appear to ask for peace in the first or second turn almost every time (I tested this out a few times by making new campaigns) and as of 1555 tokugawa and imagawa although enemies with full stack armies have made no aggressive moves at all even when I tried moving my entire army out of the province.

[[G-Shock]]

I guess the problems with the AI being uncooperative with itself will be addressed by this upcoming September patch.
In my case, I mostly play Shimazu and it's really a challenge only at the beginning because Ito poses a big barrier thanks to its boosted and fake economy.
Sagara is mostly passive while Shoni is easily defeated once Buzen is captured (if you are strong you may take Tsukushi and Hizen in just 2 turns, one after the other).

The problem is always the same... the AI doesn't garrison its castle nor protect its borders.
The entire campaign strategy is flawed big time. I got to Nagato and Amako owned almost completely Honshu from the straits to Kyoto and it never posed a threat. The only battles fought were with garrisons (in empty castles). Obviously the stronger I became the less the AI posed a threat.
When I got to Kii, Date was there and the fortress was full of an army of only firearms, no melee, no cavalry troops at all.

No mod can fix any of these issues... Vespidian you play very hard, the only harder thing you get is a bigger "wall" at Hyuga. Giving more handicaps to the player and more boosts to the AI has always been Creative Assembly's philosophy to counter its totally retarded AI.

I think the real problem here is that TROM3 and other mods made the game too complex for an already crippled AI that mostly builds builds and builds but barely recruits and garrisons its territories. If you put a unit cap in this system, God knows where its armies are, hence it's rather obvious you can't find anyone defending its territories.
I got from Nagato to Kawachi basically unchallenged. That says it all but it's not the mod's fault.

Perhaps the mod can help by making things less complex but I fear this would require a total rescheming and a totally different approach... yet I am not 100% sure it would really help.
It's CA's job...

[Vespidian]

I'm not entirely sure the AI in general is completely to blame. Prior to taking a break from shogun2 a couple of months ago I had been playing around with radious' mods and ai there was good enough that for a while it was repeatedly catching me off guard. Since posting earlier I have played as takeda and uesegi both to at least year 1555 and the trouble is that nothing happens outside of everyone barraging you with peace requests. No attacks, no defending its borders, no attacking each other...

[[G-Shock]]

There are many reports about TROM being too easy... what you can do with the increase of difficulty is to actually give even more boost to the AI economy but that doesn't really help much. I have tried a much higher autodisband rate (35%) for losses and it helps in slowing down the player as well as making things much more realistic but the real deal would be to find a way to avoid the AI from assaulting your structures when it's pretty evident it doesn't have the numbers to take them.

The result is the destruction of its army which, coupled to a basic 2-turn recruitment times means a little clan will be eliminated and a bigger one won't have time to rebuild an army able to stop you with the counter offensive. Add to this that the garrisons don't really help... it's like the AI doesn't even see them when attacking and relies too much on them in defense (probably it doesn't see them either.
We must assume combat is autoresolved for AI too so we don't see them crashing on the enemy's walls unless it's our walls. I would love to see a limit of one general per stack because much of the AI (especially during the siege) is wasted in manpower with armies with multiple generals essentially engulfed among enemy spears. Sooner or later they all will fall. Finally, I think the malus of losing a general is detrimental... if this was reduced when the AI loses a general its army might stand just that little longer and in many cases I would have lost the battle had the AI not lost its general in a silly way thus bringing its army which was WINNING to the rout.

Anyway... all we can hope for is the patch. As of TROM I'd love to see a limit to the AI manpower boost but I think this would require a PROVINCIAL pool. It doesn't feel right to see you have 3 provinces and are at the limits of your economy while the AI has just one and has 2 stacks waiting for you (+ the garrison). Manpower is supposed to have to do with the number of provinces to hold and it's more than just buying troops at the market. If you lose an army you lose its men who are not easy to replace. It's not just a matter of time (in 2 turns that unit is replaced utterly). Failing to do this, the unit caps are a necessary must but they look really bad...

The AOR recruits Samurai but no Samurai would fight for the clan that has defeated them. They would rather go ronin... so I think AOR should give Ashi not Sam and the Ronins should be released to all factions and not just Ikko.
Let's see what Yarkis will come up with this time... he always surprises me with new goodies but it's truly in CA's hands IMO.

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

Those finding VH too easy, please try playing the Uesugi and post on your experience. I find AI behavior aggressive in that scenario and multiple enemies makes for some frustration. I've only tried one campaign thus far with TROM v1, but got beaten down after a carefully managed breakout and had to flee my own territories for a rebel controlled Iwate. At that point, peace treaties became unattainable despite ample cash, hostages etc and endless land and naval invasions commenced. I've even seen the AI switch targets with it's already embarked fleet after I was forced to withdraw.

If anyone can breeze through it, I think I'll consider retirement Not doubting the AI shortcomings described above, but I think that the challenge in this game in it's current state can be somewhat situational.

[uos_spo6]

The AOR recruits Samurai but no Samurai would fight for the clan that has defeated them. They would rather go ronin... so I think AOR should give Ashi not Sam and the Ronins should be released to all factions

The AOR sam recruits are a nice wealth of diverse units though and with the various aesthetic sub mods they add a great diverse look on the battle field. In current campaign with Oda I am building a Tribute Army of pure AORs from conquered clans which I am going use to lead the charge on Kyoto when I finish

Either way, give me diversity and I am tickled pink


Regarding Challenge I have no qualms. I play on Med or Hard depending on clan. Sometimes I get unlucky and thumped early sometimes the cards fall my way and I thrive, but I always end up being left with a tough decision that puts my comfort at risk at some point.

[[G-Shock]]

There's a very important post somewhere... lost... that depicts the % of ashi/sam compositions for each major clan during Sengoku (if I find the link again I'll post it).
I am a fan of the what if, plus, we can play factions that never made it through in a dominant position to Sekigahara (i.e. Chosokabe) but in the hands of the player you could become Shogun. Theoretically, you should start with many sam and then evolve towards ashi just like Yarkis did with the Yoroi Doshi but there's a but... we need more different ashi unit types, only recruitable at the right time. That's the right way to add diversity AND follow history while still keeping open the "what if" scenario.

For one, the 2 turn recruiting and the unit movement speeds on the campaign map could be helped... I've done a research lately for another mod starting from the famous statement on the "30 li per day" and basically calculated (using google earth) that the armies of S2 move 9 times slower (at normal pace!) than they actually should.

I'm just coming out of a naval invasion vs Chosokabe from Shimazu and it took me 10 yrs to build the necessary troops and make them arrive to Bungo from all over Kyushu... that's a bit too much considering I have all posts & roads. This very slow movement might be the reason why when you tackle a big clan (generally a minor) you meet ONE army at best but then it's totally open to capture without resistance. The AI doesn't have time to move its standing armies or build new ones. That's something to work on imo.

[raest]

There's a very important post somewhere... lost... that depicts the % of ashi/sam compositions for each major clan during Sengoku (if I find the link again I'll post it).

this?

For one, the 2 turn recruiting and the unit movement speeds on the campaign map could be helped... I've done a research lately for another mod starting from the famous statement on the "30 li per day" and basically calculated (using google earth) that the armies of S2 move 9 times slower (at normal pace!) than they actually should.

I'm just coming out of a naval invasion vs Chosokabe from Shimazu and it took me 10 yrs to build the necessary troops and make them arrive to Bungo from all over Kyushu... that's a bit too much considering I have all posts & roads. This very slow movement might be the reason why when you tackle a big clan (generally a minor) you meet ONE army at best but then it's totally open to capture without resistance. The AI doesn't have time to move its standing armies or build new ones. That's something to work on imo.

i agree. a 12 turns per year "overhaul" would go a long way towards addressing this, imho. i planned on attempting to do that submod myself, but i'll wait for the new stw2 (and eventually trom ) patch since it should be around the corner...

[DriftKings]

The AOR recruits Samurai but no Samurai would fight for the clan that has defeated them. They would rather go ronin... so I think AOR should give Ashi not Sam and the Ronins should be released to all factions and not just Ikko.
Let's see what Yarkis will come up with this time... he always surprises me with new goodies but it's truly in CA's hands IMO.

That's somewhat correct, becoming a Ronin wasn't a popular avenue either, Seppuku was the choice of the Majority of beaten Samurai. But yes most samurai would not serve a conquering Daimyo unless their Daimyo was subjegated as well, then they would have no choice in the matter. This tactic was done frequently in the Sengoku Jidai period. Vassals would be one label you could throw on it but the situations were far more diverse then is represented ingame.

Also for the sake of game balance: Ikko-Ikki can't recruit Samurai units for obvious historical reasons, so Ronin are their best and only option. So if Yarkis was to make Ronin available to all, then for fairness sake he must all make samurai available to Ikko-Ikki. Also why a Faction that can build Samurai would want Ronin, besides for flavour is beyond me?