TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

[Edax]

The whole design of the nanban trade ship is a bit off. Maybe the scaling of the model is wrong. The soldiers stand behind man high walls i never saw on a ship of that era and are basically unkillable by arrow fire. So the only way to defeat that ship is to board it or set it aflame. When I played shimazu I had two ships and was usually able to defeat a whole pirate fleet by staying out of the range of their fire arrows. Making the cannons more powerfull would make this trade (!) ship a invincible juggernaut. Maybe one day somebody can alter the model so the crew can get hit by arrows.

With only a 5 cannon broadside, these don't do all that much damage, and at range, most of their shots miss, so at best they act as a support vessel (in which you might sink 3 ships in a 20 min battle), or a close combat vessel so that the muskets do most of the work, but because these ships are just so FLAMMABLE and that fire take SO LONG to put out each time, their a liability in close combat. Is their anyway to make fires occur less often (or to be put out faster under repair), but cause more hull damage to make Nanban Ships more vulnerable and more likely to surrender, but less prone to just sit there for 5 minutes in the middle of a pitched battle? A fleet with a constant barrage of fire arrow could then accually cause one of these ships to surrender, rather then being stuck in "repair limbo". I'm not trying to make these ships more powerful, I'm trying to make these ships more fun to use.

Also: I haven't ever been able to recruit the small Teppo ships that the Arsonal should allow.

Also, will the new DLC units be made AOR? I can't wait to use the Heavy Gunner, the Mounted Guns, and the Hand Mortars!

Edit: Having seen how badass powerful the Heavy Gunners are, I'm thinking they should be recruitable in a Nanban Trade Quarter(but with lower cap than the Shimazu) the help balance the fact that when coverting the Christianity, apart from the tradeships, you don't gain any badass units) Whereas Buddist get all those awesome monk and monk garrison units. (also, gunpowder mastery should also be a prerequisite) Or hell, make this also the garrison unit for the Arsonal (being that you can only build one, it shouldn't be overdoing it)

[Mr Kami]

Is the mod working as intended after the DLC patch?
I was thinking since both AUM and Radious mods that include custom units are broken and our submods for DMS seem to be as well.

[mandalore]

Using version 0.75 of TROM, I'm in the middle (almost Realm Divide) of a H Takeda Campaign and everything works fine, including previous replays, and Nagae Yari, Pike & Shot (mod-specific units) in the battle and campaign map.

I made a copy of the whole old Shogun folder just in case, but at least for the moment I was lucky and won't be needing it

BTW great mod!

[Edax]

Is the mod working as intended after the DLC patch?
I was thinking since both AUM and Radious mods that include custom units are broken and our submods for DMS seem to be as well.

Well if you HAVE the DLC, the game only sort of works. I've tested the heavy gunners, but they don't mass fire. The Date Bulletproof Samurai and Takada Fire Calvary (but has crappy stats) work too. The Hojo hand mortars cause a CTD before the battle even starts, so there are some issues. That's all I've tested so far.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Unfortunately CA changed one of the unit tables, so I can't deal with the issues yet until Taw puts out an updated converter. If you want to play TROM3 bugfree I advice not to buy the DLC until I updated the mod.

[Peregrinus]

Unfortunately CA changed one of the unit tables, so I can't deal with the issues yet until Taw puts out an updated converter. If you want to play TROM3 bugfree I advice not to buy the DLC until I updated the mod.

I wish they spent their time on a new clan DLC instead, would love to see the Otomo playable. Personally im not really interested in this latest DLC, at least until a major mod like TROM makes good use of it.

Are those new units even historical?

[Totalheadache]

can you recruit ronin units with this mod? well into the game and havent seen any...(maybe the ikkos had some).

[Americanus Supremus]

Ohhhhh noooooo.... Dam you CA with your fancy new units. I have already purchused them. Here is hoping it doesnt mess up my save games atleast for Hojo and Chosakabe

[[G-Shock]]

Speaking of Feedback I'd love to see the AI go aggressively for the trade posts.

I am also wondering why the Cav Scouts were given to the form art. It just take young retainers on a horse to build the scouts, I think we need a specific basic cav art (like for sword and bow we need that at the same level) to produce scouts and then form could produce the other cav types. It just doesn't feel right that you may recruit the Sogo Yari Cav when you can't even recruit your own scouts...

... anyway the anti-dlc mod works. The game is not crashing anymore, gj.

[bydlo]

Looks like Teppo Samurai way to overpowered. They have about 90 points of reload skill under general's stand&fight ability. And not so fragile in melee. In my last battle they almost annihilated enemy alone.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/shimazu6.jpg/

[Xander86]

Jeez did you have any other units besides teppo's it looks like they couldn't even get close to you

[bydlo]

Jeez did you have any other units besides teppo's it looks like they couldn't even get close to you

Indeed. But only 3 units of Teppo Samurai, 2 units of Teppo Yamabushi, and 2 units of Mangonels participated in that battle, all the rest were reinforcement.

[Edax]

Looks like Teppo Samurai way to overpowered. They have about 90 points of reload skill under general's stand&fight ability. And not so fragile in melee. In my last battle they almost annihilated enemy alone.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/shimazu6.jpg/

There's a damn good reason the Gun Samurai were feared. They are the perfect combo of skill and armor, but at the same time, with a unit cap of 3, your not really suppose to use ALL 3 in a single army. Their also a pretty rare unit in the game, I think I've only fought them once in ALL of the 300 hours I've played Shogun 2. Think of them as a French Guard unit, crème de la crème.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Looks like Teppo Samurai way to overpowered. They have about 90 points of reload skill under general's stand&fight ability. And not so fragile in melee. In my last battle they almost annihilated enemy alone.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/shimazu6.jpg/

I will look into them.

EDIT: As a first measure I will decrease the stand & fight bonuses. They are way to high for a ability that can affect several units at once and has a unlimited duration. I will also reduces the reload rates of fire by rank and the raipd volley ability. This should prevent the matchlock samurai from shooting way too quick.

[Chrysantheme]

every clan has at least 3 "special units" exept date...

maybe they should get acces to this new gun-kav (i heard somewhere that it would be historicial accurate if the date had acces to them) - or they could get a special verson of the kensei instead of the regular kensei. something like a kensei unit which uses the no-dachi instead of the katana wich stats to represent that.

[[G-Shock]]

b3 is just running sooo smooth.

i have witnessed the increase in autodisbanding after winning vs Ito in the middle of Hyuga (lost 2 units which had started depleted and ended... disbanded).
At the first battle, Ito was defeated, withdrew and a few units survived, I won and lost 2 units, then automerged. At the second battle, as I said, Ito was wiped out and I lost 2 more units (despite manual merge).
I think we're getting closer to the best solution. I would rise another 5% the losses for the winner. Also, the vast majority of troops killed in battle are from the routing.
There's a very unfair advantage the player has on the AI. He can trample the routers until the very last man has exited the battle but the AI can't because as soon as all the player's units are routed the battle ends.

So... I think infantry should rout much much faster than this to give it a chance to escape.
I am not sure routing and running are the same speed... if they are not, it should be easy to increase the routing speed.
Eh... if they are... I am afraid we can work either on the fatigue rate of horses (if horses get tired more quickly, they won't be able to pursue the routing troops effectively once the battle is over and so more men will escape) or ... further drop the horse speeds. In either case if this is accomplished the AI's survivability will improve.

If possible, considering the suicidal tendencies of the AI generals, the morale drop from his death should be tuned down.
I have won so many battles where I killed the general that I would have SURELY lost if its army had stood ground.

Final note: Otomo obliterated Shoni again.

[Americanus Supremus]

As I move from faction to faction in the game. I always read up on them before I do, to get a perspective of what really happened. My knowledge is very poor but is something Im very interested in, so I research a bit. Enough about that and to the point. Im going to play as the Takeda next and was reading about them and more importantly Takeda Shingen. Seems he was a massively important figure that dies before he can truly take on the Oda-Tokugawa alliance. Who knows what would happen if he had lived longer in real life, the game allows us to recreate that to a point. I bring this up only because I think the bonuses for the faction I think could use tweaking. From what I read he was and thus the clan was very well organized and administered. So much so that his ideas were adopted by many, including his enemies. Including the Tokogowa and Oda. I dont know if the game only allows 4 bonuses, but I think the Takeda should get a bonus to faction administration and tax bonuses. Dont know what others think and will get more sources if neccesary. Have a read here and tell me what you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeda_Shingen

I would also like to see the short campaign end around 1600-1604. Its the historical end to the period and gives you a little more time to finish of a turtled short campaign. I turtle as much as possible to give the ai time to build up and give me a challenge. Im starting to play more short campaigns as once the player gets 10+ provinces, the game is basically over. Long campaigns lose there appeal to me once I am the top faction. The AI can not coordinate attacks properly, they dont raid and run which would make sense but no TW game accurately portrays Total War.

I know this is a long shot but I figure I will throw it out there anyway. Instead of unit caps, is there anyway to tie Samurai recruitment to # of provinces you have or castle levels of those provinces? In my last Hojo campaigns, I played 199 turns total before getting my 40 provinces, turtle is my style. By the time I had 10 provinces the game was over. I couldnt build a big enough army to really expand further until I made my way in the Bushido arts to professional ashigura. But when I got to that I wanted to wait until my enemies could at least put up a weak defence to my military advances. With the low caps what I find is that ai factions with 5+ provinces are like dogs chasing there tail. What I mean is that either rebels or warring factions keep them reconquering the same provinces over in over in a circle. The AI never garrisons cities, which makes me think spawning bigger garrisons is necessary. I watched the Oda go round and round for over 10 years reconquering the same provinces. I honestly miss facing the massive 3 or 4 factions in game that vanilla had about 40 turns in. At least they could throw stacks at you and keep you on your toes. Right now its face one army and if you defeat that you get the province +plus 2-3 more with only fighting 800 man garrisons which I lose 0 men to in Autoresolve. Just seems from my reading of the period there were many more battles then what we can now simulate, no fault of the mod of course. Dont get me wrong as I do like the unit caps, it makes you divide your strength to defend your multiple fronts adequately. Just would like to either see them raised slightly or tied more to number of provinces or size of castles you have. I believe it would greatly help the AI put up a better fight

Loving the mod, cant wait to see how it continues to evolve

[Totalheadache]

As I move from faction to faction in the game. I always read up on them before I do, to get a perspective of what really happened. My knowledge is very poor but is something Im very interested in, so I research a bit. Enough about that and to the point. Im going to play as the Takeda next and was reading about them and more importantly Takeda Shingen. Seems he was a massively important figure that dies before he can truly take on the Oda-Tokugawa alliance. Who knows what would happen if he had lived longer in real life, the game allows us to recreate that to a point. I bring this up only because I think the bonuses for the faction I think could use tweaking. From what I read he was and thus the clan was very well organized and administered. So much so that his ideas were adopted by many, including his enemies. I dont know if the game only allows 4 bonuses, but I think the Takeda should get a bonus to faction administration and tax bonuses. Dont know what others think and will get more sources if neccesary. Have a read here and tell me what you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeda_Shingen

I would also like to see the short campaign end around 1600-1604. Its the historical end to the period and gives you a little more time to finish of a turtled short campaign. I turtle as much as possible to give the ai time to build up and give me a challenge. Im starting to play more short campaigns as once the player gets 10+ provinces, the game is basically over. Long campaigns lose there appeal to me once I am the top faction. The AI can not coordinate attacks properly, they dont raid and run which would make sense but no TW game accurately portrays Total War.

I know this is a long shot but I figure I will throw it out there anyway. Instead of unit caps, is there anyway to tie Samurai recruitment to # of provinces you have or castle levels of those provinces? In my last Hojo campaigns, I played 199 turns total before getting my 40 provinces, turtle is my style. By the time I had 10 provinces the game was over. I couldnt build a big enough army to really expand further until I made my way in the Bushido arts to professional ashigura. But when I got to that I wanted to wait until my enemies could at least put up a weak defence to my military advances. With the low caps what I find is that ai factions with 5+ provinces are like dogs chasing there tail. What I mean is that either rebels or warring factions keep them reconquering the same provinces over in over in a circle. The AI never garrisons cities, which makes me think spawning bigger garrisons is necessary. I watched the Oda go round and round for over 10 years reconquering the same provinces. I honestly miss facing the massive 3 or 4 factions in game that vanilla had about 40 turns in. At least they could throw stacks at you and keep you on your toes. Right now its face one army and if you defeat that you get the province. Just seems from my reading of the period there were many more battles then what we can now simulate, no fault of the mod of course. Dont get me wrong as I do like the unit caps, it makes you divide your strength to defend your multiple fronts adequately. Just would like to either see them raised slightly or tied more to number of provinces or size of castles you have.

Loving the mod, cant wait to see how it continues to evolve

i play a similar style. my first campaign as tokugawa on orig trom3 was on very hard and i had to turtle but by turn 200 i was on around 35 provinces and about to take kyoto but then the new beta got 2 tempting. by that stage of the campaign the a.i was attacking me on several fronts but due to upgraded teppos and the fact the a.i always attacked the one province was easy to defend then have a stack rdy to take a province.

however i wouldnt say the a.i was a pushover. just a bit predicatable.

switching to the new beta am playing as ikkos (vh) and raking in 6k koku a turn (but have a bank of 40k) and so far havent declared war on anyone and have defeated takeda/hojo/asai by around turn 100!

a.i is leaving province with no defences and i am simply inciting revolts turn after turn. its not a complete walk over but i can see myself winning by turn 150...

defending sieges are harder though atm as i lack teppos plus i do lose a few units so it is all good fun. id didnt think the ikkos would be this easy. am not blaming the mod, maybe its a lucky campaign (i did have to defeat several full stacks early on and survived with only a few units).

perhaps next campaign must be mori on legendary!

[Elianus]

This mod is amazing. I especially love what you have done with the ashigaru units. Here are a few things I would like to suggest/point out/ask. I am sorry if these things have been brought up before.

1. I am certainly no expert on Japanese history and samurai warfare but some of the bonuses seem a bit weird. For example why do the Uesugi have better monk units (and the Date better No-Dachi). Why do the Tokugawa have not better matchlock units than most and so on. Would it be possible to make the faction bonuses and faction units more realistic (I could be wrong on this though)?

2. I know that the mod does not claim to be 100% historically accurate but should there be a tachi(only) samurai cavalry unit, daisho samurai or Kengo(?) with katana?

3. I find it odd that the Uma Mawari have less armor and morale (if I am ton mistaken) than Naginata cavalry while being more expensive. Is this intentional?

4. Would it be possible for the pike and shot ashigaru to form spear wall?

Once again great work and thank you for using your spare time to make this mod.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

This mod is amazing. I especially love what you have done with the ashigaru units. Here are a few things I would like to suggest/point out/ask. I am sorry if these things have been brought up before.

1. I am certainly no expert on Japanese history and samurai warfare but some of the bonuses seem a bit weird. For example why do the Uesugi have better monk units (and the Date better No-Dachi). Why do the Tokugawa have not better matchlock units than most and so on. Would it be possible to make the faction bonuses and faction units more realistic (I could be wrong on this though)?

2. I know that the mod does not claim to be 100% historically accurate but should there be a tachi(only) samurai cavalry unit, daisho samurai or Kengo(?) with katana?

3. I find it odd that the Uma Mawari have less armor and morale (if I am ton mistaken) than Naginata cavalry while being more expensive. Is this intentional?

4. Would it be possible for the pike and shot ashigaru to form spear wall?

Once again great work and thank you for using your spare time to make this mod.

1. Obi Wan is my historical advisor. Ask him...

2. Hero units in general are for the flavour. Daisho samurai represent the basic bow and katana samurai. Tachi cavalry: see 3.

3. In v1.0 naginata cavalry is a bit more expensive. I am contemplating to give the tachi cavalry a limited bow capability with little ammo.

4. They form a spear square. That way they can still use matchlocks. Not shure if I can give them both.