Shogun 2 Realism + (S2R+) | Update v3.0 - 25th October 2013

[Hister]

No biggy, now you know. Go enjoy the mod

[DaVinci]

Update version 2.96 uploaded.

[Last open beta prior to final v3.0]

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[DaVinci]

Just uploaded v2.96.1 (as quick patch/balancing), see changelog.

[DaVinci]

Slight update, v2.96.2 uploaded.

[DaVinci]

Slight update, v2.96.3 uploaded.

Just decided to make all upcoming updates until final v3.0 as open betas, equal how small they are (requirement for an updated version is though, that the alteration has potencial for a changed gameplay, even if it might be small).
The changelog always describes the alterations.

[DeMolay]

Just wanted to say a big thank you for your dedication in this mod , i was really happy to play one campaign with it , honestly , i found almost everything you done with it fantastic

However i wanted to ask you a question (about generals ) , because there is only one thing i have problems with in your mod , perhaps it will sound like a criticism , but that is about the ashigaru morale feature :
Somehow ,i noticed that generals have tremendous effect on ashigarus , i noticed last time , i had an army much better than my opponent ( my ashis , had experience + high armour ratings , my general was 2 stars , the enemy general had one star ) and slight numerical superiority , however the enemy army had 5 generals in it , i had only 1 , but then when his army charged mine ( i was defending ) , before even making contact with my troops , all my army routed without a fight !

Now , it was a big surprise for me , as if my ashigaru taishos were bribed before the battle , but somehow i didn't understand why i lost that ( so i suspect it's the generals ) , so my question is : do Generals have such a negative morale impact on troops in the mod ? Last time also during a siege , i had huge advantage in everything except the general stars (Takeda Shingen 6 stars was assaulting Sunpu castle , my general was 2 stars ) , but then when his troops (samurais and bow samurais ) approached my walls , All my ashigarus ( units of 300 men , i was Hojo ) fled before even fighting , they fled the castle , i was mad at them ! (lol)

The thing is , it's the only thing i found weird in the mod , on the other hand , the good thing is that it made me really unsure before every battle if i was going to win or not , before every battle now , i'm scared to death of my whole ashigaru first lines fleeing without fighting , also with your mod it is possible to make spectacular victories , the kind of Kawagoe/Okehazama/Okinawate type of battle where one side with much less men wins the day against the odds

So maybe it is important to have as many generals as possible in a full stack to avoid such mass routing ? Thanks for answer , i really like this mod , actually i'm more looking for advices to avoid such scenarios where quick routing occurs (often before the fight takes place ) , maybe my mistake was to not use enough generals in my stack ? or was it to put ashigarus in first line ? For the siege it was quite frustrating (but also funny / surprising ) to see my troops having a nervous breakdown and suddenly fleeing the castle , but everything else in your mod , the recruitment , the techs , the buildings etc... i love everything in it , so thanks a lot for this mod and the frequent updates Da Vinci , cheers

[Hister]

Ah yes, it happened to me also and I was doing a similar complaint to DV

The thing is you need to know how to use those peasants properly. They can ruin your ambitions pretty quickly if positioned wrong.

NEVER put any of them in the first line. They need to be used as backup/support units. They star to weaver when they see a blunt enemy charging their way especially if the enemy is the most elite unit there is aka the general's bodyguards. When they start running for their life the units behind them think the battle is lost and flee to. One more thing is that beware not to have too many of those poor sods in one stack since the effect of their routing can be devastating for the battle as you have experienced.

Deploy samurai units holding spears where you expec the enemy hourse charge to be. Chugen units are of no use for such a task.

[DeMolay]

Thank you Hister for answer and very useful advice , it is much appreciated , i will avoid making this mistake again

[DaVinci]

As Hister says, yes, avoid to deploy the most weak Ashigaru types in 1st line, this is the "Chugen" unit, while some factions have useful Chugen units, just check their morale value, which can be used as 1st line for certain situations, but surely not to be the successful answer to Samurai opponents.

Nonetheless, Ashigaru types "progress" during the campaign to better units. Ie. the real "Ashigaru" are way better than "Chugen" in general, and also more numerous (unit number). Those are recruitable from on Encampment.

It has nothing to do with numbers of general-units in a stack, despite that general-units give morale support (radius related).

Btw. DeMolay, you as Sengoku history buff (i used quite some by you provided stuff/info of several threads) should know, that the real fight was done by Samurai class units, and first later by Ashigaru deployments, as they indeed were progressed to "soldiers". That thing is reflected in S2R+, the real "Ashigaru" should be able to hold a line without an instant rout. Until this unit is available, deploy "Chugen" in 2nd line, there they can be very useful, even to counter cavalry charges. But, i even can use those Chugen to charge at any kind of pendants and even mounted (Samurai-class) units or wrecked other Samurai class units.

[Drtad]

Just got around to trying this (testing all the mods for shogun 2 to see which one I enjoy the most) and I have to say that you really have outdone yourself with this one, DaVinci. It's fantastic! I started playing as Shimazu (with the Radious Recolour Mod, Toon's UI Retexture and Campaign Lengthening Mod) and it has been my most immersive campaign yet.

I only have a few regions but you really have to think about your developments due to the Ikko rebel religion and the unit caps (finally samurai and archers are at a realistic level and there are some good early matchlocks). I'll continue playing and see how things go, since at the beginning after taking the first Ito region I offered them vassalage in exchange for peace just to see what they would do (usually no matter what they don't accept on hard mode, though I never play as Shimazu) and they accepted! I hope that doesn't deter me later on..

[Hister]

Nice to see positive reports!

[Brips]

Your mod seems to be a simulation, i like it, but I'm afraid of no fire arrows and 3 arrows by man, completely unrealistic, it's may be good for the gameplay, but not for the simulation...

[mobucks]

Just an FYI, Asinkering released a complete game encyclopedia for S2r+ over at totalwar.org. go grab it!

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-3-(unofficial)

[The_Nord]

Just a question, something I brought up as a proposal in another thread. Wouldn't the most realistic thing to do be giving the yari ashigaru the same spear model as the Oda long yari ashigaru? Maybe that isn't possible, I don't know myself as I'm no modder. The one the samurai use is too short to be a pike, and the ones the ashigaru use normally are spears (the trident looking ones) the samurai used as they were more expensive.

[mobucks]

Just a question, something I brought up as a proposal in another thread. Wouldn't the most realistic thing to do be giving the yari ashigaru the same spear model as the Oda long yari ashigaru? Maybe that isn't possible, I don't know myself as I'm no modder. The one the samurai use is too short to be a pike, and the ones the ashigaru use normally are spears (the trident looking ones) the samurai used as they were more expensive.

Yes, you can do it, in the S2R+ thread Dianagon states:

4. "shogun_extralong_pike": I'm not sure if that's the exact name, but I realized that there's only one unit that uses the "extralong" pike weapon type in the mod, and almost all of the peasant and Ashigaru units use the short or medium yari. Is that intended, possibly for gameplay reason? Extra long yari for Ashigaru is of course historically more appropriate, certainly from 1545 onward, but if AI has problem dealing with units with this kind of pikes, I would understand why you opted not to use it.
I just converted all of Ashigaru and peasant yari units to use the extra long pikes on my end. Because the yari are so long, the men actually look like they are wielding the weapon in any way they could so that they can hit the enemy's body, which is totally appropriate.

Although I have no idea how to make this change. I dont have an account over at TW.org nor do I know if Dianagon is on these boards. Anyone able to help clear up the method of making this change?

UPDATE:
I got it. Following this as a guideline, I opened up S2R+_2.96.3.pack with the PFM.
Once open, In the left pane, click the plus to expand S2R+_2.96.3.pack
Then click the plus next to db
scroll down to unit_stats_land_tables and click the plus to expand that entry
Following the same procedure as the guide I linked above, the table we want to pull the Warscape_Equipment_Theme_IDRef from is UP1_Inf_Spear_Long_Yari_Ashigaru_Oda, found under UP1_unit_stats_land. As you will see, that unit's Warscape_Equipment_Theme_IDRef is shogun_infantry_extralong_yari
Simply click on s2r+_unit_stats_land and change the Warscape_Equipment_Theme_IDRef of all the Inf_Spear_Yari_Ashigaru_*** (where *** = late/han/mori ect) to shogun_infantry_extralong_yari
Do the same for any Inf_Spear_Yari_Ashigaru_*** found in S2R+_add_unit_stats_land

Hope this helps.

[TACTICALboom]

One VERY fine TWS2 mod. Pardon me, while i go enjoy it. Excellent work.

[rusnmat]

It is a great mod for S2!!! The gameplay is completely different from other mods, and it is more challenging. The only thing that kind of bothering me is 3 arrows per monks/samurai archers unit. All elite units already have very high armor, so archer units become pretty much worthless. They can be used only for their melle stats. Of course, it helps combat overreliance on archers in units, and them making a lot of damage as in most of other mods. In my personal opinion, that just too much of handicap. Is there same simple way to add more arrows - make archers with 7-8 arrows. That would be great. Everything else is just great..

[dbzvl]

It is a great mod for S2!!! The gameplay is completely different from other mods, and it is more challenging. The only thing that kind of bothering me is 3 arrows per monks/samurai archers unit. All elite units already have very high armor, so archer units become pretty much worthless. They can be used only for their melle stats. Of course, it helps combat overreliance on archers in units, and them making a lot of damage as in most of other mods. In my personal opinion, that just too much of handicap. Is there same simple way to add more arrows - make archers with 7-8 arrows. That would be great. Everything else is just great..

Your mod seems to be a simulation, i like it, but I'm afraid of no fire arrows and 3 arrows by man, completely unrealistic, it's may be good for the gameplay, but not for the simulation...

Samurai/Monk Archer units have very high accuracy and can take out many ashigaru/chugen soldiers. They can also be used to counter other elite units with high armor. Their low amount of arrows is a limit so that they aren't overpowered and you are using the units strategically. You can choose to shoot at chugen/ashigaru or elite units with high armor or you can save your arrows for when the time is right. In vanilla, these units would have an almost unlimited supply of arrows and you could sit there and fire away until you decimate waves of units. It doesn't have the same sense of strategic reward as this mod has.

Abilities such as fire arrows were disabled because the AI did not use them and it seemed unfair that the player could.

[Paincake]

Just downloaded this mod and the first 10 years were great but now any time my army of my 3 star faction leader engages enemies they all start to route very early. My army composition is half ronin, samurai and monks with the rest naginta, yumi and yari ashigaru. The enemies composition have been yari and yumi ashigaru with some ronin. Even my generals retreat without being scratched and often my naginata retreat right as they are about to make contact. My first 5 or so battles were not like this and were easily won. Am I doing something wrong?

[dbzvl]

Just downloaded this mod and the first 10 years were great but now any time my army of my 3 star faction leader engages enemies they all start to route very early. My army composition is half ronin, samurai and monks with the rest naginta, yumi and yari ashigaru. The enemies composition have been yari and yumi ashigaru with some ronin. Even my generals retreat without being scratched and often my naginata retreat right as they are about to make contact. My first 5 or so battles were not like this and were easily won. Am I doing something wrong?

I am not sure exactly but there may be conflicting mods.

Ashigaru tend to have very low morale so if the ashigaru portion of your army start to rout, it will affect your samurai as well.

What difficulty are you playing on?