On the Mexican drug problem

[Mr. Crow]

there seems to be some thread once in a while about atrocities committed by the drug cartels in Mexico. Yet there is little knowledge of the causes of this phenomena even, and one could say specially within Mexico.


Historically the country has been controlled by a couple of mafia families joined in several brotherhoods almost since its founding, during much of the XIX century we saw fighting amongst them ending with the revolution of Tuxtepc(1876) after which followed a period of 30 years of progress under an anarco-capitalist system. Things changed after the 1910 revolution however, all mafias were united, and they organized themselves into a single party dictatorship. The structures favored by this were syndicalist and corporatist in nature, the main industries being owned by the state in turn controlled by a the trade union respective of said industry (this persist to this day preventing any kind of competitive, reform and further progress from the country which is effectively doomed)


the nationalization of industries the heavy government subsidies to the companies owned by members of brotherhood attacks on the catholic church in a mostly catholic country(see Cristero War) made the few rich merchants and industrials along with the catholic middle class formed the Synarchist union ( hilarious how both political forces in the country are based in third way politics).


The dictatorship however persisted, it harassed the members of other parties murdering their presidential candidates. With time the Ruling party became more corrupt, it itself entered the drug trade in the mid XX century. One should also note that many “brothers” and even some presidents were CIA agents (see luis Echeverria), under this environment drug trade flourished and drug lords gain effective control of hole areas of the republic after all presidents were themselves drug lords for many decades. Finally after a successful leftist movement begun by students an latter hijacked by a flood ofdesertors from the lower ranks of the ruling party caused the division necessary for free elections in 2000.


After this elections the political party descending from those sinarchists of old got to power. It was then we we began to appreciate the rot inherent to Mexican society product of more than a century of mafia rule. The local lords and governors no longer loyal to the federal government turned bolder after all they had someone to blame everything on now. When Felipe Calderon got elected (2006) things turned desperate for them, the government tried to restore the rule of the law in some areas, ensuring the beginning of the drug war. And the government is not going to win, in fact the old party is gaining support and the short sighted, sheepish, Mexicans are going to vote them back in 2012 putting an end to the drug war and putting the drug lords back in control.


Where do you think the gangs get their weapons from?


Who supported the dictatorship for 70 years?


After all a Mexican civil, chemical, and mining engineer as well as a senator of the republic for 30+ years said in the XIX century


“the people who expected greatness of Mexico forgot that to have a great free country you need a great free people”

[hellheaven1987]

Just look at South Europe and Latin America you would suddenly remember that Mexico is another member of Spanish world... The problems Mexico face now is all shared by its Latin America and South Europe brothers now or in past...

[Mr. Crow]

with the added handicap of being near the USA.

[hellheaven1987]

with the added handicap of being near the USA.

US only provides a good market to encourage the criminal activities. Still, the main problem is Mexican government simply is ineffecient to govern those regions at all, hence local citizens have to form paramilitary organizations such as La Familia Michoacana to protect themselves, which inevitably to get fund those organizations turn to mafia to support its original purpose.

But then, as I said, at worst Mexico simply would break into a status similar as warlord era of China (by the way all Chinese warlords, including CCP and KMT, using opium market to raise their own military force).

[mrmouth]

with the added handicap of being near the USA.

If you are going to play the role of the victim then anything can be a handicap. I dont think Canada is complaining.

For decades the leaders of Mexico and Central and South American countries have reinforced the victim complex. In doing so, they looked the other way while the drug issue grew right under their noses. They saw it as a cross border issue, and it bit them right in the arse.

[Fluttershy]

If you are going to play the role of the victim then anything can be a handicap. I dont think Canada is complaining.

For decades the leaders of Mexico and Central and South American countries have reinforced the victim complex. In doing so, they looked the other way while the drug issue grew right under their noses. They saw it as a cross border issue, and it bit them right in the arse.

you are crazy... Mexico is only a hole because of the USA! it has nothing to do with the incompetence of the people who live there! Everything is someone elses fault!

[kentuckybandit]

Hahaha I laugh at this thread. I don't know what some people would do without the American scapegoat.

[Morkonan]

...Where do you think the gangs get their weapons from?


Who supported the dictatorship for 70 years?

Who?

Are you saying that Mexican drug cartel violence is simply a case of "Look at what you made me do"?

Drug cartels are killing for power and territory. The Mexican government appears to be largely corrupt, likely due to some of the things you have mentioned. Mexico City has one of the wealthiest populations in the Western World, but the average poverty rates in Mexico are abysmal... NAFTA worked, to some extent, to help stave off some of the problems, but could not overcome the inherent problems with corruption and violence in Mexico that are dictated from the top down.

Quite simply, Mexico is broken and overrun with corruption, greed for the revenue of illicit drugs and rife with power struggles amongst drug dealers and generally unscrupulous individuals who hold the value of human life in low regard.

[Mr. Crow]

Who?

the brotherhoods and the CIA

Are you saying that Mexican drug cartel violence is simply a case of "Look at what you made me do"?

did you read the post, the war on drugs can not be won because the biggest political party is involved in drug trades, and has for the last 70 years, the questions implied foreing suport for said party and its illegal activities even last year during elections members of the ruling party were shot and harrased by governors hwo support drug lords, in the past presidents were involved in the drug trade.

Drug cartels are killing for power and territory.

yet their main objective is to make the current government look incompetent so they can return to power and re establish a dictatorship, it is working.

The Mexican government appears to be largely corrupt, likely due to some of the things you have mentioned.

stagnation breeds corruption look art the USSR

Mexico City has one of the wealthiest populations in the Western World, but the average poverty rates in Mexico are abysmal... NAFTA worked, to some extent, to help stave off some of the problems, but could not overcome the inherent problems with corruption and violence in Mexico that are dictated from the top down.

and also has to do with the fact that the Mexican middle class feels powerless and cares little.

Quite simply, Mexico is broken and overrun with corruption, greed for the revenue of illicit drugs and rife with power struggles amongst drug dealers and generally unscrupulous individuals who hold the value of human life in low regard.

and a people that do not care or look at the time before the millennium.

US only provides a good market to encourage the criminal activities.

as well as providing guns and training and a safe heaven. ala pakistan with the Taliban

Still, the main problem is Mexican government simply is ineffecient to govern those regions at all, hence local citizens have to form paramilitary organizations such as La Familia Michoacana to protect themselves, which inevitably to get fund those organizations turn to mafia to support its original purpose.

no the main problem is that the biggest party by votes is involved in the drug trade

[Morkonan]

the brotherhoods and the CIA

The CIA? For what possible benefit? The only thing the US would be interested in is stability. Fostering instability in a neighboring nation is self-defeating and suicidal. The only material interest in Mexico for the US is Mexican oil, which would flow through bloody hands as well as it does clean ones. No government in Mexico would embargo the US against its oil exports - That'd be fiscal suicide and likely result in a very ticked off United States.. which isn't good for one's health, evidently.

did you read the post, the war on drugs can not be won because the biggest political party is involved in drug trades, and has for the last 70 years, the questions implied foreing suport for said party and its illegal activities even last year during elections members of the ruling party were shot and harrased by governors hwo support drug lords, in the past presidents were involved in the drug trade.

Yes, I read the post. But, I don't see the logical difficulty here that you are trying to present. If the government is assaulting other drug cartels for a share of their interests, that's not going to be solved by putting yet another drug cartel in power, is it?

yet their main objective is to make the current government look incompetent so they can return to power and re establish a dictatorship, it is working.

Given what you have written is true, I wouldn't disagree with some of the spirit of your assertion. But, I'd disagree that their main objective is controlling the government. A long-range objective? Sure. But, in order to do that, they have to have power and be able to withstand the assaults of the competition in order to gain access to highly profitable trade routes and markets. They are not just fighting to make the government look impotent.

stagnation breeds corruption look art the USSR ...and also has to do with the fact that the Mexican middle class feels powerless and cares little....and a people that do not care or look at the time before the millennium...

Generally agree, here.

as well as providing guns and training and a safe heaven. ala pakistan with the Taliban

...

That there is an illegal gun trade, I won't argue against. But, just because there have been several reported operations involving Federal Agencies in an effort to STOP such a trade doesn't mean the US government is supporting such a thing. For what possible purpose would the US support that in Mexico? Why would the US simultaneously support illegal arms trade to what amounts to Rebels who want to overthrow a government that, as you claim, the US is also illegally supporting? That makes no sense. Stability is what is desired, not chaos that overflows the borders or causes Mexican oil supplies to dwindle or rise in costs unexpectedly.

The US is certainly not a "haven" for training drug dealers to kill people in Mexico.. They don't need to go to Chicago to learn how to shoot someone and cut their head off. The drug cartels have ample resources to train their own cannon fodder.

[Mr. Crow]

The CIA? For what possible benefit? The only thing the US would be interested in is stability. Fostering instability in a neighboring nation is self-defeating and suicidal. The only material interest in Mexico for the US is Mexican oil, which would flow through bloody hands as well as it does clean ones. No government in Mexico would embargo the US against its oil exports - That'd be fiscal suicide and likely result in a very ticked off United States.. which isn't good for one's health, evidently.

The presidents during the drug Boom in Mexico were CIA Agents, and the us has lots of interest in Mexico.

Yes, I read the post. But, I don't see the logical difficulty here that you are trying to present. If the government is assaulting other drug cartels for a share of their interests, that's not going to be solved by putting yet another drug cartel in power, is it?

of course not, the only way to solve it is preventing the cartels from gaining power again but that aint gonna happen

Given what you have written is true, I wouldn't disagree with some of the spirit of your assertion. But, I'd disagree that their main objective is controlling the government. A long-range objective? Sure. But, in order to do that, they have to have power and be able to withstand the assaults of the competition in order to gain access to highly profitable trade routes and markets. They are not just fighting to make the government look impotent.

but they have been in control before, here is an interview by one of the most important journalists in Mexico (CNN Latin America)
in which a dying ex president(and former CIA agent) admits drug deals by the family of another ex president of that same party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIOfBe7oCdA

Sorry i couldn't find it in English
...
minute: 1.48

interviewer"ricardo slinas was murdered" brother of president carlos salinas

ex president " probably because of his drug trade"

That there is an illegal gun trade, I won't argue against. But, just because there have been several reported operations involving Federal Agencies in an effort to STOP such a trade doesn't mean the US government is supporting such a thing. For what possible purpose would the US support that in Mexico?

The us Supports the political party involved by tradition.

The CIA control most drug trades

Why would the US simultaneously support illegal arms trade to what amounts to Rebels who want to overthrow a government that, as you claim, the US is also illegally supporting?

The US is supporting the biggest party by votes, it controls most townships, however coalitions have ensured that the ruling party is another one, or has been for the last 10 years, they want to get their government back

[Morkonan]

...The US is supporting the biggest party by votes, it controls most townships, however coalitions have ensured that the ruling party is another one, or has been for the last 10 years, they want to get their government back

The US doesn't want that government back...

On LITEMPO : http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/index.htm

[Pyrich]

Mexico economy is larger than Canada's and Australias. Yes, larger, Mexico is a wealthier country than both those two. Hmmmm, somthing is amiss in mexico for sure...

[Valiant Champion]

These crime families may go all the way back to the Ancient Aztec culture and the Anunaki bloodlines.

[Pyrich]

These crime families may go all the way back to the Ancient Aztec culture and the Anunaki bloodlines.

The Caliphates in north africa and spain more likely


When the Conquistadors landed 95%-99.9% of the new worlds peoples died from dieases within a couple generations, probably put a hurt on the organized crime racket

Imagine the black death and other plauges in europe, only about 5 or 6 waves all at once, each one taking out half the population like it did in Europe/Asia/Africa.

Another way to look at it, the Aztec Empire alone had 3x the population of Iberria Penisula when the spainish landed, just before 1600 it was about the population of one large spainish city.