Regarding Christians and Jews...

[Ancient Aliens]

Why are there Christians? Shouldn't people who believe in Christ follow the values and the religion that he followed, namely Judaism? I realize that he set down new rules, and that traditional Jews do not see Jesus as the messiah, but there are Messianic Jewish sects who are adherant to the guidelines set down by Jesus and believe that he is the Messiah...

[hardrive]

Why are there Christians? Shouldn't people who believe in Christ follow the values and the religion that he followed, namely Judaism? I realize that he set down new rules, and that traditional Jews do not see Jesus as the messiah, but there are Messianic Jewish sects who are adherant to the guidelines set down by Jesus and believe that he is the Messiah...

*cough*...?? AFAIK Jesus of Nazareth was born as jew, but did himself not follow Judaism. As it seems he created a new religion or religious/spiritual way of life that contains Judaistic components.
And as Jesus of Nazareth lived in an enviroment that was influenced to a large extend by Hellenic ideas and philosophy, they might also have been incorporated in his new religion. Similar to the ideas and works of Philo of Alexandria.

[hellas1]

@Ancient Aliens,

What you say about Jesus or Yeshua is partially true.

Yeshua FULfilled the Law & Prophets. Yeshua said for example: "It is written that whoever commits adultery, etc. etc. but I tell you that
if you look on a woman with lust in your heart towards her (paraphrasingly), you've already committed adultery."
Yeshua also confirmed the first & greatest commandment "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength, and will (I believe)"
AND the second greatest commandment "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

He is the promised Moschiach.

There is the letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law also.
The Ruach Ha'Kodesh brings understanding & life & light to the written word (Tanach)

The Tanach mentions numerous times that God made a covenant w/Israel to teach the Gentiles about Hashem. God also placed Jerusalem in the center of the planet as a sign too.

When we examine the Torah, in particular, we see that the Kohanim & Kohen Ha'Gadol did ritualistic external things (Prophetic types) which ULTIMATELY point to a dynamic internal thing (Spiritual realities), namely God taking a people for himself and living IN them.

It IS written "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness."
That was before the Law of Moses on Mt. Sinai! Right?
So we see a principle of righteousness based on faith in Hashem God versus a righteousness based on the Law of Moses.

Dig?
hellas1.5

[Ancient Aliens]

*cough*...?? AFAIK Jesus of Nazareth was born as jew, but did himself not follow Judaism. As it seems he created a new religion or religious/spiritual way of life that contains Judaistic components.
And as Jesus of Nazareth lived in an enviroment that was influenced to a large extend by Hellenic ideas and philosophy, they might also have been incorporated in his new religion. Similar to the ideas and works of Philo of Alexandria.

He did not found a religion, his disciples (and later the Church), reinterpreted Judaism into their own format. Jesus of Nazareth (if he even existed) was a rabbinical leader, who followed the commandments of the God of the Old Testament, whom he called 'his father'. He never called for people to abandon Judaism, he simply questioned the Pharisees.

So again, why are there Christians?

[boofhead]

He did not found a religion, his disciples (and later the Church), reinterpreted Judaism into their own format. Jesus of Nazareth (if he even existed) was a rabbinical leader, who followed the commandments of the God of the Old Testament, whom he called 'his father'. He never called for people to abandon Judaism, he simply questioned the Pharisees.

So again, why are there Christians?

Jesus said to spread the Word of salvation to the gentiles, to all nations. Now gentiles can't just become Jews. Hence there are Christians.

[Khassaki]

Jesus said to spread the Word of salvation to the gentiles, to all nations. Now gentiles can't just become Jews. Hence there are Christians.

Boof got it in one. Christianity was mostly a religion of Rome and Anatolia. No Jews there and gentiles cannot become Jews except by a very strict path, so they became Christians instead.

[Ancient Aliens]

No Jews there and gentiles cannot become Jews except by a very strict path, so they became Christians instead.

So in other words Christianity was founded due to laziness. I'm sorry, if I felt that my eternal soul was going to be damned based on such a decision, I wouldn't half ass it.

[sdjenkyn]

He did not found a religion, his disciples (and later the Church), reinterpreted Judaism into their own format. Jesus of Nazareth (if he even existed) was a rabbinical leader, who followed the commandments of the God of the Old Testament, whom he called 'his father'. He never called for people to abandon Judaism, he simply questioned the Pharisees.

So again, why are there Christians?

Its in the name "Christian". Followers of Christ. Its that simple. Jews do not believe in Christ as in the Resurrection so now we have an offshoot of Judaism, Christianity.

[Ancient Aliens]

Its in the name "Christian". Followers of Christ. Its that simple. Jews do not believe in Christ as in the Resurrection so now we have an offshoot of Judaism, Christianity.

Did you read the entire OP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

[sdjenkyn]

Did you read the entire OP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

Lets try this again. Christianity is also referred to as Judaic-Christian. Christianity is based on the Jewish religion with the exception that Christians believe that Jesus was the Resurrected Son of God while Jews dont believe that with the exception of the group founded in 1960 in your wiki article. So the question was why are there Christians and that has everything to do with Christ and "his" teachings even though his education was Judaism. Think of it as a split in a church where one parish breaks away from the mother church and creates its own identity but still retains some of the scripture and ritual of the original. Maybe its me but it seems like you are trying to create something more complex then is necessary or Im just totally missing your point.

[hardrive]

He did not found a religion, his disciples (and later the Church), reinterpreted Judaism into their own format. Jesus of Nazareth (if he even existed) was a rabbinical leader, who followed the commandments of the God of the Old Testament, whom he called 'his father'. He never called for people to abandon Judaism, he simply questioned the Pharisees.

So again, why are there Christians?

I'm no christian myself and merely view Christianity/Judaism/Islam/etc. as part of the cultural evolution. So I might be wrong in what I posted earlier.
Although your opinion seems misleading, as it seems to imply that JoN (Jesus of Nazareth) was simply a missionary jewish prophet; unlike contemporary masterminds as the jewish Philo of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo).
If your right, that would be fine with me; but what do the historians of religion say?

Why are there Christians? => Because people believe/d, that what JoN (and esp. his followers and later on the ancient clergy) said was right.

[(s)AINT]

Judaism doesn't claim the Messiah has already came... At least it's more humble than Christianity,

[Col. Tartleton]

Judaism doesn't claim the Messiah has already came... At least it's more humble than Christianity,

Not even a matter of humble, matter of reasonable. Jews are hoping God reaffirms their covenant at some point, but they don't know when or how and they are going to maintain their culture as best they can in the meanwhile in hope that they, or their children, or their children, etc. might be the generation that confirms their beliefs. A pretty common Jewish belief is that there is at all times in the world someone who could be the messiah if called upon. They'd never know it until it happened.

Christianity basically undermines the most admirable aspects of Judaism. I think the Jews are best summarized with a passage from the Odyssey:

As they were speaking, a dog that had been lying asleep raised his head and pricked up his ears. This was Argos, whom Odysseus had bred before setting out for Troy, but he had never had any enjoyment from him. In the old days he used to be taken out by the young men when they went hunting wild goats, or deer, or hares, but now that his master was gone he was lying neglected on the heaps of mule and cow dung that lay in front of the stable doors till the men should come and draw it away to manure the great close; and he was full of fleas. As soon as he saw Odysseus standing there, he dropped his ears and wagged his tail, but he could not get close up to his master. When Odysseus saw the dog on the other side of the yard, dashed a tear from his eyes without Eumaeus seeing it, and said:
"Eumaeus, what a noble hound that is over yonder on the manure heap: his build is splendid; is he as fine a fellow as he looks, or is he only one of those dogs that come begging about a table, and are kept merely for show?"
"This dog," answered Eumaeus, "belonged to him who has died in a far country. If he were what he was when Odysseus left for Troy, he would soon show you what he could do. There was not a wild beast in the forest that could get away from him when he was once on its tracks. But now he has fallen on evil times, for his master is dead and gone, and the women take no care of him. Servants never do their work when their master's hand is no longer over them, for Zeus takes half the goodness out of a man when he makes a slave of him."
So saying he entered the well-built mansion, and made straight for the riotous pretenders in the hall. But Argos passed into the darkness of death, now that he had seen his master once more after twenty years.
Homer, Odyssey, Book 17

The Jews are an old dog waiting for their master to return. Simple as that. They're waiting for a new Moses.

[Morkonan]

Why are there Christians? Shouldn't people who believe in Christ follow the values and the religion that he followed, namely Judaism? I realize that he set down new rules, and that traditional Jews do not see Jesus as the messiah, but there are Messianic Jewish sects who are adherant to the guidelines set down by Jesus and believe that he is the Messiah...

For Christians, Christ represents the "New Covenant" between God and Man. Many Jewish traditions in the Old Testament are reaffirmed within the New Covenant. The Ten Commandments is one such example. And, there are many teachings of Christ that are viewed to supersede Judaism.

[Copperknickers II]

Christianity is no more an offshoot of Judaism than Budhhism is an offshoot of Hinduism. It had the same roots, but it was the result of one person's new ideas that differed significantly from the old view. Jesus may have considered himself a Jew, but if he were around today he would be considered a Christian.

[basics]

" Why are there Christians? Shouldn't people who believe in Christ follow the values and the religion that he followed, namely Judaism? I realize that he set down new rules, and that traditional Jews do not see Jesus as the messiah, but there are Messianic Jewish sects who are adherant to the guidelines set down by Jesus and believe that he is the Messiah... "

Ancient Aliens,

But Christianity is exactly that, Judaism in its purest form, the way the Jews should have been, all this shown from Genesis on. By faith Abel was accounted righteous as was Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and a whole host of others, that faith built on the " seed " Jesus Christ coming to pay for their sin. Is it then surprising that Paul should write many years later that by faith these who are born again of God, circumcised in the heart, are the true Israel of God?

The book to the Hebrews tells us that all the Peoples of the Tribes who fell by the wayside did so because they didn't have faith, the faith of Jesus Christ, and so died in their sin as all the others from whatever nation did. They died without excuse because the prophets had told them, the Law given to Moses told them and Jesus Himself told them yet they didn't have faith of Jesus Christ as is written in that book.

The problem that many have with this is that their systems give them the impression that the church only began at Pentecost which of course it didn't yet in visible terms that is quite true because before then Israel was its type and shadow. As that we can begin to see with Israel the same happening within the church wherein all sorts of weird and wonderful additions have become more important than what was actually taught.

Combine that with the hatred for Jews that came out of these organisations then one can begin to see into the minds of them that took over control of the church. I mean God said that out of each generation He has reserved for Himself a number of Jews to be saved because to the Jew first comes salvation and then Gentiles. Did that ever resonate with the systems that had replaced the Jewish originals? Not on your nellie, they were all Christ killers and so the scene was set and set by unregenerate men.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was always about faith, His faith, being imparted to a new believer, so that they had no doubt as to who their Saviour was. They had His faith and they were given His Spirit, the Comforter, a double witness, if you like, to the veracity of their salvation. Jews and Gentiles continue to be saved by the same method as was Abel, all those years ago. It hasn't changed and can't change because that is how it was ordained before God created what we know as our universe.

[Spike]

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/25/ne...theyre-jewish/

well...

[Krixux]

Why are there Christians? Shouldn't people who believe in Christ follow the values and the religion that he followed, namely Judaism? I realize that he set down new rules, and that traditional Jews do not see Jesus as the messiah, but there are Messianic Jewish sects who are adherant to the guidelines set down by Jesus and believe that he is the Messiah...

Imho ‘ and I stress again imho , a Christian is a Jewish and vice versa....
We are all God’s children, “first the Jew then the Gentile....”

To a large extent a Christian does follow pure Judaism.

Christ is the Lam that was sacrificed each year on Eastern Day....
(with the washing of sins symbolism attached)

The majority of churches are build as a copy in one way or another of the Temple of Solomon.
Both are circumcised ( ouch, better in spirit than in flesh, imo ...)

They have similar believes as who are we, Who made us, etc.

Well Christian are Jewish but they kind of forgotten ....
While Jewish are Christian, they just have to realise it.... one their own and not....ahem ...


oh btw , didn’t the Bible stated that the conversion of Jews to Christ will be the sign of The Second Coming ?

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

Christians follow Christ's teachings, Jews don't. What's there not to get? We believe in the same God, but we've got different beliefs over what God wants, over what is life and death, over who is a sinner and who isn't (Jews do not consider non-Jews sinners, and do not try to convert people to Judaism), we've got different traditions and different ways of praying and of showing affection to God and while our faiths are intertwined Christians are most certainly not followers of the Jewish faith.

As to why there are Christians, Jesus was cross at the corruption of the Cohenim and the sinfulness of Jewish society back then, and wanted to bring Judaism back on the right track, but eventually ended up inspiring a seperate faith and evetually the new testemant, the book which officialy turned Christianity from a division of Judaism to a different religion.

[Ancient Aliens]

Christians follow Christ's teachings, Jews don't. What's there not to get? We believe in the same God, but we've got different beliefs over what God wants, over what is life and death, over who is a sinner and who isn't (Jews do not consider non-Jews sinners, and do not try to convert people to Judaism), we've got different traditions and different ways of praying and of showing affection to God and while our faiths are intertwined Christians are most certainly not followers of the Jewish faith.

As to why there are Christians, Jesus was cross at the corruption of the Cohenim and the sinfulness of Jewish society back then, and wanted to bring Judaism back on the right track, but eventually ended up inspiring a seperate faith and evetually the new testemant, the book which officialy turned Christianity from a division of Judaism to a different religion.

That isn't what I'm debating though. Why don't Christians follow Judaic principles, such as keeping Kosher, Old Testament commandments, etc, if they believe in the same god? Does believing in Jesus allow people to eat pork and shellfish (this makes no sense, as a Jew Jesus would have followed Old Testament law himself)? And why would people follow Christianity when there are religions that would be more adherant towards the lifestyle that Jesus of Nazareth himself would want people to live (namely Messianic Judaism, Judaism that includes the principles that Jesus taught, and the belief that Jesus is the Messiah).

I truly believe that there is an answer to this, as an atheist I am simply curious, that's all.