Geert Wilders hate speech trial to proceed

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Wilders' trial to continue, judges throw out unfair trial claim

Monday 23 May 2011

Amsterdam district court has rejected a call by Geert Wilders’ legal team that the inciting hatred and discrimination case against him be dropped.

Wilders’ lawyer Bram Moszkowicz said at the beginning of this month that his client would not get a fair trial and urged the court to abandon the case.

Moszkowicz’ argument centres on a senior court official who was influential in ensuring Wilders was taken to court even though the public prosecution department was unwilling to pursue the case.

But the court said on Monday it did not accept Moszkowicz’ claim that the anti-Islam party leader would not get a fair trial and said claims Tom Schalken had tried to influence a key witness during a dinner party were implausible.

Schalken was no longer involved in the case, and although he should have acted with greater caution to ensure no signs of partiality, he had not gone too far, the court said.

So what do you think? Will he get a fair trial? Personally I hope he's aquitted, because this whole trial is just silly, he didn't break any laws and don't forget that even the prosecution didn't want to proceed and take him to trial

[Sir Pignans]

He shouldn't be aquitted just because he won't get a fair trial....

[mongrel]

So what do you think? Will he get a fair trial? Personally I hope he's aquitted, because this whole trial is just silly, he didn't break any laws and don't forget that even the prosecution didn't want to proceed and take him to trial

Not an expert on Dutch jurisprudence but I would reckon that it is up to the Dutch judicial process to determine if this moron is innocent or not, rather than the good people of this forum.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Wilder's is a complete moron and his ideas are much rather ''primitivistic rambling'' than anything truly political but how can he be judged for publicly expressing them in a Free Western Country is beyond me.

[Menelik_I]

Wilder's is a complete moron and his ideas are much rather ''primitivistic rambling'' than anything truly political but how can he be judged for publicly expressing them in a Free Western Country is beyond me.

This

[Simon Cashmere]

Not an expert on Dutch jurisprudence but I would reckon that it is up to the Dutch judicial process to determine if this moron is innocent or not, rather than the good people of this forum.

You might not agree with his views, but he's no moron. Even though the traditional left shouted from the rooftops that he was a loon, a nazi, a racist a hater, and made every sort of smear through state and private media, he still stuck to his guns and managed to lead one of the larger parties in the Dutch house within a few years. So, he's not a moron.

He's also prepared to put his life on the line for his viewpoint, right or wrong, very few people have the courage to do. He lives in a Dutch tank division barracks sometimes (and other locations) because the Religion of Peace is dead set on killing him. A member of Parliament in the supposedly free world has to hide in an army barracks for presenting his viewpoint? But there is no problem with Islam, oh no....

I think also we can have an 'opinion' about the case, and the way it was run. The fix was in. Not even the prosecutors wanted to bring it, and then the Dutch Court of Appeal said they had to. The Dutch prosecutors have been half hearted about it, and Geert Wilders was restricted in the number of witnesses he could call in his defence.

In essence - is telling the truth now a crime because people do not like what you wish to say? Geert Wilders has been able to call 3 witnesses only, and, one of the judges on the Court of Appeal met with Wilders' witness and tried to talk with him about the case! That is the most extraordinary interference with justice - but there has been no fallout or discussion about this outside of the right media.

Wilders trial, is the trial which determines a lot. Will the Left be able to silence all viewpoints that it dislikes with the coercive arm of teh state - or will people be able to speak the truth or at least their truth unimpeded. Certainly the left isnt bringing hate speech trials against the imams in the Netherlands, not at all - they are part of the sacred elite who can do as they wish.

In any event, I should call up the link from the previous thread. Here it is:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...71#post6638871

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I don't understand why people should be jailde for expressing their views.

I disagree with him strongly but if anyone who thinks it should be a crime to have unpopular views is an idiot and downright dangerous.

[Claudius Gothicus]

I don't understand why people should be jailde for expressing their views.

I disagree with him strongly but if anyone who thinks it should be a crime to have unpopular views is an idiot and downright dangerous.

You don't get it ireland... not being in agreement with multiculturalism and having a critical(yet childish) view of it is a serious crime that should be punished

[mongrel]

Youn don't get it ireland... not being in agreement with multiculturalism is a serious crime that should be punished

One can disagree with multiculturalism and still oppose sectarianism or the promotion of religious hatred. Your conflating the two does not detract from the fact that the man is a bigoted arse who would not be missed if he disappeared for 6 months.

[The Dude]

One can disagree with multiculturalism and still oppose sectarianism or the promotion of religious hatred. Your conflating the two does not detract from the fact that the man is a bigoted arse who would not be missed if he disappeared for 6 months.

So why are we giving him all this time in the spotlight?

Just wondering.

The other day he referred to muslims as "voting cattle" for left wing parties, right during a meeting of parliament. Socialist front man Emile Roemer apparently left the room in disgust.

Why do people keep responding to Wilders like this? The best thing to do is to ignore him. Let him ramble. If noone pays attention, he'll be forced to get even more extreme and more offensive to get people to care about him. And then there will automatically come a point where he crosses a line and will have ruined all his credibility as a politician. He will have to get so offensive that even his loyal following will start feeling sorry for those on the receiving end.

We can very easily get rid of someone like Widers through an actual, genuine, honest democratic process that stems from our hearts and minds. Instead we give him a platform and pretend that it's democracy at work.

GG.

[Claudius Gothicus]

One can disagree with multiculturalism and still oppose sectarianism or the promotion of religious hatred.

No if you associate the two and play the blame game(childishly and stupidly but yet with a right to do so), then all of a sudden you become a criminal in need of a punishment.

Your conflating the two does not detract from the fact that the man is a bigoted arse who would not be missed if he disappeared for 6 months.

Expressing your inner wishes in here I see. How tolerant of you.

[hekk]

If the Netherlands is a free country, let a free man speak.

I don't necessarily agree with Wilder's views, but I have seen his work. He is critical of Islam but he's not inciting violence in contrast to many anti-Westerner fundamentalists that PC governments keep throwing money at. In this day and age where terrorist attacks do happen, how can Islam easily be regarded as an entirely peaceful religion? If there are people who try to only shut down the voices of those who are critical to Islam, it only shows to them that there is insecurity and doubt on part of Islam.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

One can disagree with multiculturalism and still oppose sectarianism or the promotion of religious hatred. Your conflating the two does not detract from the fact that the man is a bigoted arse who would not be missed if he disappeared for 6 months.

I'm horrified you think it's ok to drag people off and imprison them because of their political beliefs. What is this, Saddam's Iraq? What the makes you think you have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot do?

[Sir Pignans]

I'm horrified you think it's ok to drag people off and imprison them because of their political beliefs. What is this, Saddam's Iraq? What the makes you think you have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot do?

So we can't tell people that they can't murder other people?

[mongrel]

I'm horrified you think it's ok to drag people off and imprison them because of their political beliefs. What is this, Saddam's Iraq? What the makes you think you have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot do?

Racism and religious bigotry are social diseases, not political philosophies.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Murder is preventing othe people from doing what they want to do.

[Wilder]

I've been very interested in this controversy for some time. I'm torn, because on the one hand he is fairly clearly a xenophobic bigot that would like to limit freedoms in what is historically one of the most free countries in the world, simply to impose his cultural preferences on the rest of Dutch society. On the other hand, "hate speech laws" are little more than thinly veiled methods of restricting freedom of speech if it offends the delicate ears of spiteful pseudo-liberal toadies.

So what to do? Clearly I could not care less if the man is guilty of whatever demented charge that has been brought to bare. The real question is: "is the law just?", to which any person that values a free society should answer with a resounding NO. In this sense his defenders are quite right.

BUT, something bugs me about this all the same. Try and get a book published almost anywhere in europe that denies the holocaust, and you will be thrown in prison faster than you can say "Neo-nazi retards" ten times over. This has been the state of affairs for some 60 years. Much the same defense can be applied to these holocaust deniers as Wilders, and yet who defends them? Who makes pitiful whimperings about political correctness? Almost no one, save a handful of Neo-Nazis and an occasional genuine advocate of free speech. So why the ruckus about Wilders? I can't speak to the factors in local Dutch politics that must play a role, but I'd be willing to make a large bet that POLITICAL CORRECTNESS contributes plenty. After all Muslims and immigrants are a fairly easy target, at least compared to the prospect of defending a Holocaust denier.

And make no mistake, Wilders is a hateful worm. Saying that he simply has the courage to point out what the rest of us are scared to say is crap. He wants to repeal the portion of the Dutch constitution guaranteeing equality under the law. If that does not raise hairs on the back of your neck you are very much the enemy of "western values" not its' savior.




Best possible outcome?

Wilders is acquitted, the hate speech laws are repealed across europe, and Gert is promply run over by a bus.

[Gromovnik]

So he deserves to die?

[Wilder]

So he deserves to die?

What am I, God? I dunno, thats why god in the form of a bus should do it...

Joking, Joking, I'm not serious

No I don't think he should die, I DO however see him, not as simply a person with differing political opinions, but rather an enemy, to be fought. An important distinction and a rare one, in my case. People who want to remove equality under the law inspire that reaction in me.

[Gromovnik]

So how would you fight him?