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Thread: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

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    Default A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n/carla-t-main

    In a bizarre judicial move that has largely slipped under the radar screen in the United States, England’s Central Criminal Court, known as the Old Bailey, several weeks ago banned Jews and Hindus (and anyone married to one) from serving on the jury in a trial of Abdullah el-Faisal. The Muslim cleric had been running around England writing, recording, and speaking about his hatred of Americans, Jews, and Hindus, and waxing poetic about Osama bin Laden. He was tried and convicted of soliciting the murder of nonbelievers (read: Americans, Jews, and Hindus) and using threatening words to stir up racial hatred.
    Obviously Muslims couldn't be biased in this trial.

    Isn't a discrimination based on religion this? Jews, Hindus and Americans brought in trials has the right to not be judged by Muslims members of the jury?

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    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n/carla-t-main



    Obviously Muslims couldn't be biased in this trial.

    Isn't a discrimination based on religion this? Jews, Hindus and Americans brought in trials has the right to not be judged by Muslims members of the jury?
    You could file it into the ''Affirmative Action'' category ie it is Discrimination, but the right kind of discrimination.

    right being totally arbitrary, the consequence would be obviously to balkanize society.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Their Law's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Until i know more i'm reserving full judgement, but i imagine the logic was on the lines of that since the accused is specifically targeting and insulting key groups, that said groups might be incapable of providing an objective viewpoint when judging him. Rather than any bias in the establishment towards any particular group.

    That said i dislike jury picking on principle, so i disapprove of this.
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    So can muslims serve in this jury?
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Um... problem? No wonder its slipped under the radar, it's a non issue. Obviously Jews and Hindus would be biased in this case, would you try a white supremacist with a black jury in the USA then? There are all sorts of rules about who can be in a jury, noone with any connection or sympathies that would lead them to have a biased opinion on the matter are allowed to be part of a jury.

    Oh, and it should also be mentioned that this was 8 YEARS AGO!!!
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; May 22, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Um... problem? No wonder its slipped under the radar, it's a non issue. Obviously Jews and Hindus would be biased in this case, would you try a white supremacist with a black jury in the USA then?
    And if he claimed to hate also Christians and Atheists you would allow only Muslims to serve in the jury?

    The principle is just wrong for any democratic state that care the equality of treatment for every religion.

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    And if he claimed to hate also Christians and Atheists you would allow only Muslims to serve in the jury?

    The principle is just wrong for any democratic state that care the equality of treatment for every religion.
    I don't think the UK claims to have equal treatment. Positive discrimination is part of our multiculturalist doctrine to ensure true equality.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  8. #8

    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I don't think the UK claims to have equal treatment. Positive discrimination is part of our multiculturalist doctrine to ensure true equality.
    How can you have positive discrimination? It's negative to those not enjoying the same treatment.
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    How can you have positive discrimination? It's negative to those not enjoying the same treatment.
    If there is an inherent bias towards one section of society, positive discrimination is required to even things out. Eg, if staffing at a certain establishment is mostly male, a female quota could be introduced so that women could be made to be accepted over men, where there were no other distinguishing characteristics, to make it fairer for other women wanting to apply there. It is negative to the other group, yes: if a see-saw is weighted at one end, you have to remove some weight at one side and add some at the other so it is balanced equally on both sides.

    Now I read that he also claimed to hate westerners and Christians, why the court hadn't banned also the Englishmen from the jury?
    Because our whole judiciary system is biased towards our cultural view, so it would take more than disallowing English people to remedy that. Also because it was a rather ill-informed decision, but nothing to get your knickers in a twist about. Justice was served, its not as if he got leniency because of this decision.

    Oh and can a mod move this to the VV, seeing as it is ancient history?
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; May 22, 2011 at 01:11 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  10. #10

    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I don't think the UK claims to have equal treatment. Positive discrimination is part of our multiculturalist doctrine to ensure true equality.
    Now I read that he also claimed to hate westerners and Christians, why the court hadn't banned also the Englishmen from the jury?

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    I'm reserving my speculations on this for now... but if this is true just like the article says, then it's not only stupid but completely against what a modern state stands for.

    Citizens are supposed to judge citizens, and religions/race/ethnicities/class etc. are not supposed to take any place in a Court. In this particular case the reasonable thing to do woulb be having a jury made out of every possible ''social group'' in the Country, it's not practicable therefore a sort of balance should be striken, never a ban.

    State Bureaucrats(me being one of them ) are not supposed to bring in their views into State action.
    Last edited by Claudius Gothicus; May 22, 2011 at 01:13 PM.

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    2003.....wtf?

    Why not post a more recent news piece on the issue? You know, a follow up to this story in the last eight years.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Um... problem? No wonder its slipped under the radar, it's a non issue. Obviously Jews and Hindus would be biased in this case, would you try a white supremacist with a black jury in the USA then? There are all sorts of rules about who can be in a jury, noone with any connection or sympathies that would lead them to have a biased opinion on the matter are allowed to be part of a jury.

    Oh, and it should also be mentioned that this was 8 YEARS AGO!!!
    lol A guy with a Islamic Union Jack AV essentially defending a Muslim extremist? Never would have guessed it.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    This belongs to the VV, not the PM! 2003 FFS!

    Though I agree, it was a scandalous affair.
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    Though I agree, it was a scandalous affair.
    This.

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Ask Gromovnik, seeing as he lives there. Its a wonderful place: everyone strolls around in rose tinted spectacles, history is banned, its always sunny and everyone lives under rocks; people dance around in circles and sing songs about pretty blonde haired maidens and try not to imagine life in the nasty cruel outside world, where there are things like inequality, sexism, greed and human nature.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    So is OK to encourage sectarian discrimination?

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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    So is OK to encourage sectarian discrimination?
    Call me discriminatory, but I'm not debating this issue with someone who doesn't even know what the word Sectarianism means.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  19. #19
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    Quote Originally Posted by Principe Alessandro View Post
    So is OK to encourage sectarian discrimination?
    As long as you do it right and defend ''minorities''
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  20. #20

    Default Re: A dangerous precedent in the English judiciary system

    At least there's no discrimination...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

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