In the aftermath of "Everybody draw Mohammed day 2"

[Gromovnik]

Here's an interesting video adressing the sickos who want to curtail everyone else's freedom of speech:

BTW. the "scholar" in the middle of the video is hilarious.
So what do you think about the arguments expressed in it?

[Yosemite]

the scholar is a muslim "apologist"? what the does that mean

also that's what i think

http://free-minds.org/ayman

the interesting part comes after "WHY MECCA?" and explains the rituals and how they are like the pagan rituals

[Sher Khan]

Youtube quality post begets a Youtube quality soapbox rant.

The comment that seemed to spawn the next ten minutes of complaining about double standards of idolatry was focused on why Muslims don't depict Muhammad. Yet his complaint was based around why a non-Muslim made cartoon of Muhammad would be seen as idolatry - a point which was never expressed by the comment, or by anyone for that matter.

His med school anecdote was also funny. His view of moderates is colored by someone he admits to be special in his views on evolution and the possible impact it had on the form our world has taken. The narrator makes an arbitrary distinction between the uniqueness of this man's views on science and sociology and the supposed general nature of his views on Democracy and non-religious ideology as religion. I began to suspect he had something against religion in general with the implied distinction that being for evolution means you aren't religious, and that seemed correct once he discussed (what he believes to be) the difference between a moderate and an extremist. And the distinction between religion and rationality.

Also, med school is a horrible place to rely on to color one's views of people outside of med school. We're all a little neurotic here, anatomy does that to people (no surprise, the narrator mentions their arguments taking place during anatomy classes).


Also: "Respect my religion"
"Why should I have respect, going by just one definition of the word?"

He ignores the more correct usage of respect as a verb in the context of respecting someone's views and relies on the unrelated definition of respect as a noun.

Oh, Youtube.

[RangerGxi]

Drew a pony, named it "The prophet Muhammed"


PROVE HE WASN'T A PONY.

[Gromovnik]

Why should we respect someone's views? I'm not talking about tolerance, all opinions should be tolerated.

[Orko]

Just because someone holds a view doesn't mean those views should be respected. If a belief seems silly or stupid to me, then I have no reason to respect it. Islam seems silly to me.

[Yosemite]

Why should we respect someone's views? I'm not talking about tolerance, all opinions should be tolerated.

say you are a kind person
and someone say "respect my views"
then you will respect his views

other wise you can simply not give a

most people who draw mohamad just want to stir up

[PointOfViewGun]

Why should we respect someone's views? I'm not talking about tolerance, all opinions should be tolerated.

We indeed tolerate yours...
Another stupid video from you. Surprised? Not really. Is there anything valuable to talk about other than the low quality and inaccuracy of the video? Not really.

[Sher Khan]

Because you can respect someone's right to have that view despite how much you might disagree with it.

The video uses the Oxford Dictionary's entry on respect incorrectly for the context of his argument. When it is asked, 'respect (this),' the word respect is being used as a verb. From the same Oxford Dictionary entry:

verb

[with object]

• 1 admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements:she was respected by everyone she worked with (as adjective respected) a respected academic
  
  
• 2 have due regard for (someone's feelings, wishes, or rights):I respected his views
• avoid harming or interfering with:it is incumbent upon all hill users to respect the environment
• agree to recognize and abide by (a legal requirement):the crown and its ministers ought to respect the ordinary law

The first is also unrelated, no one who is asking for someone to respect one's views or religion is asking them to admire it and praise it, they are using the second definition. One does not need to, of course, just as much as one doesn't need to be a massive dick.

[Gromovnik]

Because you can respect someone's right to have that view despite how much you might disagree with it.

The video uses the Oxford Dictionary's entry on respect incorrectly for the context of his argument. When it is asked, 'respect (this),' the word respect is being used as a verb. From the same Oxford Dictionary entry:

verb


[with object]

• 1 admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements:she was respected by everyone she worked with (as adjective respected) a respected academic
  
  
• 2 have due regard for (someone's feelings, wishes, or rights):I respected his views
• avoid harming or interfering with:it is incumbent upon all hill users to respect the environment
• agree to recognize and abide by (a legal requirement):the crown and its ministers ought to respect the ordinary law

The first is also unrelated, no one who is asking for someone to respect one's views or religion is asking them to admire it and praise it, they are using the second definition. One does not need to, of course, just as much as one doesn't need to be a massive dick.

I absolutely respect everyone's right to have opinions and views, but I don't respect those views.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Because you can respect someone's right to have that view despite how much you might disagree with it.

to have respect for someone's view and to respect someone's right to freedom of thought and expression are too entirely different things. Don't build a strawman.

[Col. Tartleton]

As Kid Cudi said "I never gave a ." Religions are jokes. Anyone who gets super serious about their religion and comes at me is going to get knocked down hard.

If you try to convert me, I'm going to concave your face. If I'm interested I'll look into it, make some observations, do some thinking, conclude it's questionable and bail.

My religion is sex, drugs, and violence. The human experience. Raw adrenaline, unprotected sex, and trans-dimensional transcendence induced by recreational shamanism. Keep your sermons and your prayers. I'd rather have an orgy porgy pudding pie.

[Yosemite]

I'm going to concave your face.

then i go to the police to get your ass in jail

A lot of muslims get upset over this because some Imam tells them they should. That's the only reason I can think of for taking personal offense. Even completely non-offensive depictions of Muhammad are regarded as offensive because they violate some rule. Why do muslims care about this rule? Individual muslims should give thought to why they feel that a drawing of muhammed is offensive for reasons beyond the violation of some codified standard.

so i had this friend who converted to salafism
he told me that you cant think for yourself when it comes to the religion, because you can end up doing something wrong
so they follow their leaders and their renowed scholars like sheeps

[Col. Tartleton]

then i go to the police to get your ass in jail

Then I tell them who my dad is. Besides, how would you talk to the police with a concaved face?

so i had this friend who converted to salafism
he told me that you cant think for yourself when it comes to the religion, because you can end up doing something wrong
so they follow their leaders and their renowed scholars like sheeps

Well when you spend your Friday nights alone with some goats you might start acting like a sheep.

[Prodigal]

I am no friend of Islam, but that's terrible. Not right.

[boofhead]

Well, to be honest certain muslims have opened up a new fad across the globe of drawing Mohammad. Nobody really even thought about it until said muslims had such cataclysmic hissy-fits over it, and little light-bulbs sprang up over the heads of all the non-muslim trolls.

Besides, AFAIK Mohammad has been depicted by muslim artists historically on many occasions.

What's the big ing deal?

[The Dude]

Well, to be honest certain muslims have opened up a new fad across the globe of drawing Mohammad. Nobody really even thought about it until said muslims had such cataclysmic hissy-fits over it, and little light-bulbs sprang up over the heads of all the non-muslim trolls.

Besides, AFAIK Mohammad has been depicted by muslim artists historically on many occasions.

What's the big ing deal?

A lot of muslims get upset over this because some Imam tells them they should. That's the only reason I can think of for taking personal offense. Even completely non-offensive depictions of Muhammad are regarded as offensive because they violate some rule. Why do muslims care about this rule? Individual muslims should give thought to why they feel that a drawing of muhammed is offensive for reasons beyond the violation of some codified standard.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

Well, to be honest certain muslims have opened up a new fad across the globe of drawing Mohammad. Nobody really even thought about it until said muslims had such cataclysmic hissy-fits over it, and little light-bulbs sprang up over the heads of all the non-muslim trolls.

Besides, AFAIK Mohammad has been depicted by muslim artists historically on many occasions.

What's the big ing deal?

The big ing deal is that it's those filthy imperialist Christian Westerner Infidels that are doing it, hence it must be evil. Who needs reason when you have faith.

[boofhead]

The thing is, whether they get upset or not, they have no right to tell non-muslims what they can or cannot do.non-muslims are not and do not want to be bound by Islamic law.

At all.

In any way.

Just like Christians have no right to tell artists not to do depictions of ''gay Jesus'' or ''piss Jesus''.

Offended muslims need to pull their heads in, and see these depictions for what they really are: just rude non-muslims being rude non-muslims.

It doesn't hurt Muhammad, it doesn't hurt Allah, all it hurts are the sensibilities of some people who don't know where their boundaries of influence lie.

[Sher Khan]

And to have respect for someone's views is just as different as being asked to respect someone's views. As in not much difference if we're all going to be arbitrary about what people ask for when they say 'respect my religious belief.' It's not an issue of admiring or not admiring some innate quality of a certain belief. It's an issue of having due regard for these wishes or rights.

I don't build straw men.

The only straw man in this topic is the idea that Muslims are mad at cartoon depictions of Muhammad because of their own traditions about depicting the prophet. They are not. Muslims in the West who ask for a show of respect for said traditions are aware that those doing these things are just people being rude. These are Muslims in the West who have a basic understanding of who the players are, what they're doing, and why they do and are allowed to do this. But the Muslims who are MAD are those living within their own media bubbles, feeding on their own sources of information that present their own stories that either sanction current government policy or sanction a certain religious worldview depending on who's talking. They are mad not because other people thousands of miles away are drawing Muhammad while Muslim tradition refrained from such things no more than they are mad at non-Muslims eating pork and drinking alcohol thousands of miles away. MAD Muslims are angry that these foreigners are insulting Muhammad, which by extension depending on where your civic values lie, means they are insulting Arabs/Muslims or Islam/their way of life.