How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
The title says it all. I'm playing a Rome campaign (I will finish it!) and have downloaded some mini mods for battles, such as Darth's Mod and Marcus Camillus' player formation, as I like to deploy my men in the Quinqux (sp?) I find it much more interesting and, more importantly, fun, than the standard straight line in front, straight line behind, skirmishers ready on the flanks, etc.
Only thing is, the formation is designed for quite a lot of men. If going by the Roman guide posted here by someone (can't remember his name) I should have an army of about 16 units, if not more. As it is I have 14 units per army, and I feel that if I have any more men in my armies that it'll just be too easy.
How many units do you guys put in your armies? Do you have set rules for them or do you just mix and match as you see fit at the time?
I use the Roman Manipular Formations (Untill Marian when things will be slightly different). At the moment I am not too far in my current Roman campaign, year... 255, I think... eitherway, I have one full stacked Consular army. It is made of up as described in the Guide, and ultimately history as I am playing this one as historicaly accurate as possible (whereas before I was as accurate as my knowladge allowed, which is good, but man did this guide help! ). The army currently, though, has a little more allied troops than Roman troops as opposed to 50/50 as should be. This is becouse I needed to ship troops to the army (In Sicily) and the closest where Greek and Samnite troops. However, even though playing on VH/H and using 'cheats' to give money to the AI Factions this army is still very strong... So, I think I will scale down the number of units for my next Consular army, or this army's next campaign.
I also have a fort outside Capua where I hold one unit of every Roman troop so I can use them for replenishing my army. Also, my armies are only ever led by a General of the right age and office, as the guide mentions .
“For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more--remembering my own sins and follies; and realize that men's hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words.” - J.R.R Tolkien
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
I used Polybian ratios even for my camillan units, so I have 13 infantry(3 skirmishers, 2 hastati+2Ahastati, 2 principes+1Aprincipes, 1 pedites, 2halfstrength triarii+1classical hoplites), 1 80-strong equites, 1 160-strong allied cavalry and 1 FM. It's bad, I know, that's a total of 17 units but then again I usually face full stacks so it kind of balances out.
I'm actually thinking about making my units 120 on huge instead of 160 and keeping the frontage, that might make for a tougher fight, right?
Originally Posted by Hibernicus II
What's EB?
"I Eddard of the house Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, sentence you to die."
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
Slightly different since I play as the Seleucids, but with a phalanx army I like to have 10 units of phalanx (personally I like the Pantodapoi Phalangitai due to their low cost and high availability), two cavalry, and two hypaspistai or thorakitai deployed on the wings, with 1 Eastern Archers to give range. When I get more money in the later game, I like to add a unit of the armoured elephants, to engage the enemy lines when they have already met my phalanx.
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
I'm still at the beginning of my roman campaign, still finding the right amount of troops one of my Legions should have.
I have always played in vanilla and other mods with 1 roman legion = 1 full stack, with SPQR mod I used 1 full stack as a roman component of a legion and a couple other full stacks of auxilia so 2-4 full stacks were a legion, it made for some awesome battles as I would attack first with the skirmishers, retreat them and then attack with the romans.
I don't like the limit by that guide and I'm planning on doing the same that I did in SPQR, but the costs of units may keep me from having more than 1 full stack as a Legion. Currently my 2 full "Legions", the only two I can afford right now, consist of 3 hastati, 3 principes, 2 Triarii (I might mod their troop numbers by half), 2 rorarii, like 2 to 4 skirmishers, 1 equites and the general.
I despise hoplites, so I don't use them, except in urban warfare and then maybe.
Edit.
Just to add that I'm aiming for the usual 5 hastati, 5 principes, 3 triarii, 1 general, 2 equites, 2 spear auxilia and 2 skirmishers for early legions and 1 first cohort + 10 legionary cohorts, 1 general 2 spear auxilia, 4 skirmishers, 2 cav auxilia. for late legions. + couple of half strength stacks of auxilia units, be it cavalry, light infantry, skirmishers or some elite AOR units, still deciding.
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
I've read Sertorius' guide, but I found it too unimplementable for RTW environment (e.g. one post Marian legion - Cohors prima+1(!!!!)Cohors reformata)
so I am even tempted to write my own guide that should be called "Realistic and RTW EB oriented Roman conduct guide"
and no offence ment against Sertorius, his guide is in fact a pinnacle of good writing, historical sense and solid research. however though I am a sort of historical hardcorer I feel total historical accuracy is a no-no in game where your full stack army is composed of 20 units, each 240 men max.... I use full stacks and refer to them as legions, thus my composition is done accordingly...
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
Well his marian legions are really over the top, but he did a very good job before that with the camillan and polybian(although I like my version of the polybian legion more )
For the record, my marian legion is 7 cohorts(1 first), 2 artillery, 2 cavalry and 4 auxilia(which are different types of local troops and mercenaries, skirmishers and light and medium infantry) I strive for 7 roman and 7 auxilia units. I generally don't use antesignani, since IIRC those were used by Caesar only, in view of his inferior cavalry numbers.
Originally Posted by Hibernicus II
What's EB?
"I Eddard of the house Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, sentence you to die."
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
Ave!
First of all pls note that I love play EB... The Romani composition of army I consider like semi(un)-historic, but I love fun and try to use all possibilities of game ... so it means that I really DONT like armies composed of 15x Principes etc.. I read all the threads about it, I read Quintus Sertorius historical guide ... and adopt my own army system :-)
"Legatus FM" has to be "Preator or Ex-Preator", "Consul or Ex-Consul", or at least "Ex-Tribunus militium" more than 30 Years old. "Attorney Legatus FM" has to be at least "Tribunus or Ex-Tribunus militium" and more than 25 Years old.
Camillan Legions/army recruited in Italian Penninsula:
I didn´t adopt any standards during my Camillan era (272 - 242BC) because of lack of money, a few of usuful FM, a few of goals (South Italy campaign, Sicilia campaign (not Syracuse), Corsica and Sardinia campaign and Cisalpina campaign (Bononia - Patavium - Mediolanum)... mostly I compose only one campaign army from all core camillan units plus samnitici units plus greece units...
During 242BC Polybian reform reveals and Senatus developed some organization rules for military organization:
Polybian Legions/army recruited in Italian Penninsula:
and can be lead by Legatus (FM) or by "captain". As I play, my opinion is that this "Legio" is able to be useful and can operate with succes. Legio can be reinforce with any leight infantry (velites, greek style Peltasti etc) or with cavalry units (Equites Extraordinary, Equites Campanici, mercenary Gauls cavalry etc..).
2) Preator army
Like most common army I use to split two Legio together, lead only by Legatus (FM). This type of two legio army (we can say "Preator army") is generally reinforced by one or two or.. cavalry units (second FM, Equites xxx..) and maybe by leight infantry (as before). It means:
1x Equites Consulares (Legatus FM)
2x Hastati
2x Principes
2x Triarii
2x Hastati Samnitici
2x Pedites Extraordinary
---
0 - 3x Cavalry units (Legatus FM, Equites or Equites Campanici, Extraordinary, greek or gaul or african style mercenary cavalry...)
0 - 2x Velites, Peltasti, gaul or hispanian or greek infantry
3) Consular army
By splitting of three standard Legio has created Consular army led by Legatus FM .. Mostly like the answer for huge enemy army (armies) or important faraway campains (invade of Hispania, Greece, punny Africa) ...:
Polybian Legions/army recruited in Hispania, Greece, Afrika, Gaulia etc:
Core units of every polybian Legio should be Roman Hastati, Principes, Triarii ... socii units Hastati Samnitici and Pedites Extraordinary are changed by most useful allied heavy infantry of each region where is Legio detached for longer time (campain). All other mechanism are still same...
All changes for better composition should be accept during the time, nothing is untouched... for example I feel little bit problematic using of Hastati Samnitici in the time, in compare with havier enemy infantry adopted via reforms (gauls, punny etc..) .. so it means they should be replace with pedites extraordinary or.... I will see..
Now is cca 230BC. I´m going to retake Massilia from Koinon Hellenion (after my puppet state fall due to huge rioting).
In Hispania Inferior I took Arse and prepare to invade punny´s cities in the south.
In Dalmatia I took Segestica(Rebels) and Dalmation (Epireos) and now marching to the south and east to beat whole Epireos .. (most powerfull Greece state) .. I´m in alliance with Macedonia..
I´m preparing future siege of Syracuse and Segesta (Ligurians), campaign in Africa against Carthago and great Hispania campaing against rebels and Lusitanians...
Re: How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
Originally Posted by Aenima
The title says it all. I'm playing a Rome campaign (I will finish it!) and have downloaded some mini mods for battles, such as Darth's Mod and Marcus Camillus' player formation, as I like to deploy my men in the Quinqux (sp?) I find it much more interesting and, more importantly, fun, than the standard straight line in front, straight line behind, skirmishers ready on the flanks, etc.
Only thing is, the formation is designed for quite a lot of men. If going by the Roman guide posted here by someone (can't remember his name) I should have an army of about 16 units, if not more. As it is I have 14 units per army, and I feel that if I have any more men in my armies that it'll just be too easy.
How many units do you guys put in your armies? Do you have set rules for them or do you just mix and match as you see fit at the time?
I use a lot of houserules, here's my roster for a standard Camillan Army:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
3 Triari
3 Principes
3 Hastati
1 Roman Cavalry
1 FM (or a non-roman cavalry)
the other units are based on the local background, usually
1-2 ranged units (roman slingers in central italy, greek slingers in souther italy, celtic slingers in northern italy)
1-2 skirmishers (Rorari or Leves in italy, Akontistai or Peltastai in Southern Italy... Rorari and Peltastai are better).
2-4 auxilia melee units, at couples (Samnites, Brutii, Celts Spearmen, Gaemiles, Hoplitai)
If it's a consular army, add some Pedites Extraordinarii (both infantry and cavalry) and pull off some auxilia.
If it's a defensive army (so, not your main army, but a bulk of men you're leaving for defence)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
2 Triari
2 Principes
2 Hastati
1 non-roman Cavalry
1 unit (roman slingers in central italy, greek slingers in souther italy, celtic slingers in northern italy)
1 skirmisher (Leves in italy, Akontistai).
2 auxilia melee units, at couples (Samnites, Brutii, Celts Spearmen, Gaemiles, Hoplitai)
the same for a Polybian Army (the Auxilia are more varied, and I don't enlist auxilia from regions were I build a Gov1)
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How many units do you have in your armies (Roman players especially)
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). The army currently, though, has a little more allied troops than Roman troops as opposed to 50/50 as should be. This is becouse I needed to ship troops to the army (In Sicily) and the closest where Greek and Samnite troops. However, even though playing on VH/H and using 'cheats' to give money to the AI Factions this army is still very strong... So, I think I will scale down the number of units for my next Consular army, or this army's next campaign.
Originally Posted by Hibernicus II
