Massive Protests in Spain

[Snoopy]

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/liv...sh-protest-yet

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/408cb194-8...#axzz1MqZrpRjF

But politicians of both left and right have struggled to come to terms with the unscheduled eruption of a wave of protests – co-ordinated via Facebook and Twitter – into the election campaign. The gatherings, which started on Sunday when a loose group of dissatisfied young Spaniards calling themselves “Real Democracy Now” staged demonstrations across Spain, have since swelled into an amorphous proto-revolution known as the “May 15 movement”. Condemning domination of the political system by the two main parties and calling for electoral reform, their message is, in effect, “a plague on both your houses”

A common theme among the various groups of protesters now camped out at Puerta del Sol, a square in the heart of Madrid, is indignation at the level of unemployment – which averages nearly 45 per cent among 16- to 29-year-olds, according to the National Statistics Institute and 35 per cent according to the government. Other causes espoused in the carnival atmosphere of the square on Thursday include feminism, anarchism and hatred of bankers. But a lack of jobs for graduates and disgust at bipartisan politics remain the most prominent grievances.
For many Spaniards, it is not the youth demonstrations that have come as a surprise but the fact they took so long to materialise.
“It was incomprehensible that with youth unemployment at these levels nothing had happened,” says Josep Ramoneda, a political columnist. “And bipartisanship is a problem because people’s options are limited. We’ll see a terrible thing on Sunday [election day]. Many candidates accused of corruption will not only win but will win with more votes than before.”

Thoughts?

[Menelik_I]

Welfares bums want Europe to bail them out

/Thread.

[Visna]

Welfares bums want Europe to bail them out

/Thread.

A protest against a youth unemployment at around 45% and stuck bipartisan politics, in Spain no less, turns into "welfares bums want Europe to bail them out". How do you connect the dots?

[Menelik_I]

A protest against a youth unemployment at around 45% and stuck bipartisan politics, in Spain no less, turns into "welfares bums want Europe to bail them out". How do you connect the dots?

1- Unemployment of 45% was enabled by government using EU gravy train to finance GreeNuts jobs and waste time instead of enabling needed reforms. Bunch of young people showing up in the streets will once reinforce Spanish government to shamelessly beg for a bailout to appease them.

2- Any political movement asking for ''electoral reform'', ''real democracy'' and ''putting the right people in''. and contesting ''corruption'' is generally full of Hotair. They want their jobs from the Spanish government, which will oblige by asking for the needed EU assistance/bailouts.

I might be wrong, lets wait to see what happens next, although I bet £5 that I'm right.

[Their Law]

1- Unemployment of 45% was enabled by government using EU gravy train to finance GreeNuts jobs and waste time instead of enabling needed reforms. Bunch of young people showing up in the streets will once reinforce Spanish government to shamelessly beg for a bailout to appease them.

2- Any political movement asking for ''electoral reform'', ''real democracy'' and ''putting the right people in''. and contesting ''corruption'' is generally full of Hotair. They want their jobs from the Spanish government, which will oblige by asking for the needed EU assistance/bailouts.

I might be wrong, lets wait to see what happens next, although I bet £5 that I'm right.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

[Menelik_I]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

Don't cry yet ... let me first show you my special toilet paper, it has this printed on the rolls.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nothing like a Cleggeron to clean

[Tiberios]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

I second that.

How these protests have anything to do with "welfare bums" is beyond me.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

1- Unemployment of 45% was enabled by government using EU gravy train to finance GreeNuts jobs and waste time instead of enabling needed reforms. Bunch of young people showing up in the streets will once reinforce Spanish government to shamelessly beg for a bailout to appease them.

2- Any political movement asking for ''electoral reform'', ''real democracy'' and ''putting the right people in''. and contesting ''corruption'' is generally full of Hotair. They want their jobs from the Spanish government, which will oblige by asking for the needed EU assistance/bailouts.

I might be wrong, lets wait to see what happens next, although I bet £5 that I'm right.

I don't know who the created the welfare myth of the Southern European states. Myths like the Greeks having more anniversaries than the Germans or retiring in 50 years old. Sure. The Germans are hard-working and disciplined people while we are sunbathing in the Bahamas for more days than the year has.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Meh, it's understandable. The government(by letting the banks bubble up) screwed up and high rates of non-frictional youth unemployment(and unemployment in general) are never a good thing, for the country, the masses, the Business and the whole of the EU.

However!!! Going from that to ''real democracy'' sounds like leftist hyperbole.

[Gromovnik]

I don't know who the created the welfare myth of the Southern European states. Myths like the Greeks having more anniversaries than the Germans or retiring in 50 years old. Sure. The Germans are hard-working and disciplined people while we are sunbathing in the Bahamas for more days than the year has.

One more reason to leave the damn "union".

[Menelik_I]

I don't know who the created the welfare myth of the Southern European states. Myths like the Greeks having more anniversaries than the Germans or retiring in 50 years old. Sure. The Germans are hard-working and disciplined people while we are sunbathing in the Bahamas for more days than the year has.

Greeks retire at 50 to 60 with full Benefits /Discussion.

Spain has pretty consistently denied it will need a bailout.
But yes, reforms are necessary, and they are being undertaken. Austerity measures being one of them. Such things are rarely popular, especially among those on the receiving end. And I'm sympathetic to their grievances. They're not the ones to have caused this crisis, but it sure looks like they're paying for it.
Here in Denmark for example it's perfectly ordinary private customers like yours truly who pays for a) the banks' failed investments and b) the failures of it's business customers. That pisses me off.

Everybody and their mothers denied the need for a bailouts.

I think it's great that young people are getting involved in the decision making processes. They show a level of commitment their parents could learn a lot from.

You cannot build a political movement on young people ignorance and emotional inconsistencies. especilly for the next quote

And that they turn against the unregulated "marketcapitalism" and the idea of maximising profits for profits sake is simply icing on the cake.

Or they simply jumped for a easy feel good idea and blame the uni-Boggyman ... icing on the cake or what everybody and their mothers blame for everything and this a sign of them not having pondered the problems that brought Spain here.

However!!! Going from that to ''real democracy'' sounds like leftist hyperbole.

This is where I lost them.

ETA:

I second that.

How these protests have anything to do with "welfare bums" is beyond me.

I'm trying to get rich Kralle18 ... I'm 80% I will win my bet

[Visna]

1- Unemployment of 45% was enabled by government using EU gravy train to finance GreeNuts jobs and waste time instead of enabling needed reforms. Bunch of young people showing up in the streets will once reinforce Spanish government to shamelessly beg for a bailout to appease them.

Spain has pretty consistently denied it will need a bailout.
But yes, reforms are necessary, and they are being undertaken. Austerity measures being one of them. Such things are rarely popular, especially among those on the receiving end. And I'm sympathetic to their grievances. They're not the ones to have caused this crisis, but it sure looks like they're paying for it.
Here in Denmark for example it's perfectly ordinary private customers like yours truly who pays for a) the banks' failed investments and b) the failures of it's business customers. That pisses me off.

2- Any political movement asking for ''electoral reform'', ''real democracy'' and ''putting the right people in''. and contesting ''corruption'' is generally full of Hotair. They want their jobs from the Spanish government, which will oblige by asking for the needed EU assistance/bailouts.

I might be wrong, lets wait to see what happens next, although I bet £5 that I'm right.

I think it's great that young people are getting involved in the decision making processes. They show a level of commitment their parents could learn a lot from. And that they turn against the unregulated "marketcapitalism" and the idea of maximising profits for profits sake is simply icing on the cake.

[Admiral Piett]

1- Unemployment of 45% was enabled by government using EU gravy train to finance GreeNuts jobs and waste time instead of enabling needed reforms. Bunch of young people showing up in the streets will once reinforce Spanish government to shamelessly beg for a bailout to appease them.

2- Any political movement asking for ''electoral reform'', ''real democracy'' and ''putting the right people in''. and contesting ''corruption'' is generally full of Hotair. They want their jobs from the Spanish government, which will oblige by asking for the needed EU assistance/bailouts.

I might be wrong, lets wait to see what happens next, although I bet £5 that I'm right.

I don't know what the political aims of the protests are, but its doubtful that these protests are akin to the ones in Greece.

[Dr. Croccer]

Welfares bums want Europe to bail them out

/Thread.

I see Menelik has absolutely no knowledge of Spain or Europe in general.

[Menelik_I]

I see Menelik has absolutely no knowledge of Spain or Europe in general.

I still have a £5 outstanding bet on the claim I made ... I'm sure I will win.

[Dr. Oza]

Welfares bums want Europe to bail them out

/Thread.

Let me guess, you didnt read the links and made a general and ignorant remark. What do you know about welfare ? What do you know about what it means to be a youth in Spain? Can you make these judgements?

[fluffstalker]

It must be so hard to be a youth in Spain..I feel their pain......all that civil war...um.. I mean...all that disease and social strife...uh....I mean...all that unemployment...YEH...unemployment...oh noes...




lol.

[GKaplan]

Dear forum members,

It is funny that I arrived here at this time of the night (morning now) looking and reading for international news and reactions to the Spanish Protests. I've been myself a fan of Rome TW+expansions+mods for a long time. My nationality happens to be Spanish and I'd like to add something to this post. I apologise in advance by its length as it's a complex matter.

Most of the international media news seem to focus on the fact that the protests are about unemployment rates and the bail outs. That is inacurate as only simplifies -I would even dare to use the word manipulates- what is happening right now in my country. In turn this can create a vision of "wanting jobs from the government" and demanding "welfare from nothing" as I read not only here, but also around. I can understand where it comes from. That is only made to create the impression that the protests are not legitimate, as the protesters would be a bunch of fools, lazy people, asking for things that everybody knows can't happen from one day to another. I still wonder though, if that is because if they would told you that basically people had e-n-o-u-g-h and they are starting to take the streets to say stop, demonstrating in a pacific manner, it might happen that those ideas would start to spread to other countries. Maybe even in yours. And that's a real democracy. Not the kind that politicians control, but the one they happen to be controlled in. You don't need that 'cause your system works? Fair enough! we are asking for that right now! Think about new technologies playing a big role on this too, as they have allowed to connect normal day to day citizens to engage in these activities. Twitter is booming with the hashtags spanishrevolution and acampadasol . It's a shame that different languages still create an informative barrier even in the Internet.

This civil movement has erupted from the fact that the two biggest political parties in the country have exhausted some people's patience due to many things, amongst them, the fact that they are running to an electoral campaign next sunday with members who have been known to be corrupt or are being judged on possible cases of corruption. A map was created by one of these civic platforms (No les votes - Don't vote them) in order to let people know who is not being that clean: They are all known cases, many parties are involved. These days actions are being difficult to understand by analysts from common media because nowadays they need to take sides to satisfy their politically-sided readers, but this movement happens to be attacking and disqualifying both sides of the political existing spectrum. No leftish hyperbole.

This movement is not apolitical, it's very political but it has no parties or labor unions attached to them. It's not just a casuality that Alan Moore's "V" imagery is appearing from time to time on the Spanish streets or the web pages. In fact any person, party or trade union trying -and they tried during the 2nd & 3rd days- to take advantage is being told off with a bounce effect of "being fake". Add to the whole situation the missmanagement of the crises period where, instead of solutions and measures, the civil society faced the show of who shout it louder to gain more votes from the other side, without any viable solutions, only the political game to obtain power. And the common media (Tv, radio) transmitting the message of these political parties with continuous lies from their official government speakers -example: about how the unemployment is not going to reach the 4 million people, while being close to 5 in less than a year after those statements. Should we add, that's just in official numbers- . Not enough with it, the main parties recently approved a law that was passed by another state into us, as we would have no sovereignty any more. At first unsuccessful , a new vote was cast, in order to regain that approval (which legally could be seen as creating a breach in our Magna Carta or National Constitution). Do you think is not affecting other European citizens? Wonder why our minister of industry went into a European tour to sell houses around the Spanish coast 2 weeks ago? We faced a housing bubble crises+the global crises together. There are no buyers and we try to get them from abroad... regardless if those houses are in known green belt areas planned to be demolished in a few years time (Brits should be aware of this! There are unresolved ongoing trials about it). The huge increase on prices with the missmanaged entrance on the Euro was never followed by an increase on salaries for citizens.

Our democracy is young, from 1978, but since it has deteriorated. Our rulers have used their position to favour themselves with big salaries and life-retirement benefits, while perpetuating in power with a system that favours bipartidism, a non-evolved democracy with no real separation of powers. Sooner or later something like this had to happened, and I'm glad is being done through -still- pacific means. As days pass, more people are gathering in different cities around the country and in front of Spanish Embassies around the world. This weekend it was expected that demonstrations would reach a peak as people who work would join in. Yesterday night, the actual Junta Electoral declared unlawful the demonstrations for the following 2 days as we are in a period of elections and said "it could influence voting". Their decision also clashes with the free right to gather guaranteed in our constitutional rights.

Find additional info at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...anish_protests . Thanks for reading. Sorry if I bothered you. Best regards.

[hellheaven1987]

Tell me when International Brigade is active again to fight the tyranny of Spanish government.

[Babur]

Tell me when International Brigade is active again to fight the tyranny of Spanish government.

Or a no-fly zone?