aryan blitzkrieg

**trollface** · May 16, 2011, 11:09 AM

elephants are a tad overpowered... I conquered india and the hindustan in 30 turns. With all the swastikas lying about, unstoppable armoured juggernauts and ruthless blitzkrieging... well it feels like i'm a rajput nazi.

The tragedy is that the indians have alot of interesting cavalry and infantry units... but the elephants overshadow everything, both figuratively and literally. I might expand up to khwarezm and wait for the mongols, without any javelin units they will be victims. They will tell horror stories about my elephant armies for years to come

**saglam2000** · May 16, 2011, 02:16 PM

As far as i remember elephants cost a ton to upkeep and javelins make quick work of them...

**Menelik_I** · May 16, 2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by saglam2000

As far as i remember elephants cost a ton to upkeep and javelins make quick work of them...

He is probably abusing the money cheat ... I don't think he is doing is even possible

**wudang_clown** · May 16, 2011, 03:23 PM

I think it is possible.

Long time ago while playing BC 2.02 as Solankis (now Paramaras) I've conquered 6 Indian settlements in 5 turns, without much of a trouble.

**Dago Red** · May 17, 2011, 12:34 PM

I have not had much contact with elephants until recently (I started a Solanki campaign a while back but lost interest somehow), but it appears to me that they are a bit overpowered as well. Nothing small tweaks couldn't fix though. I was able to defeat 1 full unit and 1/2 unit along with some spearmen in an ambush where I only had 1 unit of Persian javelins and the rest were cavalry (as Ghorids), but my entire force was ruined including my General. Even though I ambushed them the elephants were able to run UPHILL at my javelins and take 0 casualties before making contact. The javelins got maybe half a salvo off before the beasts were on them -- that was perhaps a fault of the jav unit, that fire delay is absurd.

Here's my issue's with the elephants:

- They don't actually kill their own troops when they stampede through them, they only seem to knock them down and 100% get back up. The AI seems to move the elephants around it's other troops very well so I'm not sure if I have just not seen a self inflicted stampede yet? Still, it would be better if the elephants caused casualties while running to and fro among their own troops.

- Ineffectiveness of spears. Why would a good spear be any less effective against an elephant than a thrown javelin? I understand game mechanics reasons for this, but I think there is a better way to portray the reason why you would use a javelin versus a spear : namely because you want to survive!
Spears should be just about as effective, with the drawback that the men should not easily survive the experience. Where javelin troops can be light on their toes and spread out, and firing at a distance, spearmen have to get close in and would sustain massive casualties.

**trollface** · May 18, 2011, 08:43 AM

>He is probably abusing the money cheat

enough with the stupid accusations, I have never used a money cheat in any mod

how do I do it? Simple... the rebels have no elephants and rarely have javelin units, so as long as you keep the elephants moving, preferably charging, you can conquer rebel settlements very easily when the ai sallys. The cavalry and infantry can be trampled on again and again until they rout. Enemy javelins can be dealt with by quickly charging them down with elephants or cavalry, advisable to not use your general as he may get killed. As I said, I conquered the entire hindu area in roughly 30 turns by elephant blitzkrieging. Javelin elephants are not that expensive... 600-700 gold maintenance is not that bad, many elite cavalry units cost as much. Generals and archer elephants cost more but I don't use alot of either

AI elephants can be easily killed by jav cav, so can yours if you do not pin them with a light cavalry unit... before piling your elephants on them when they are in melee

heres the save

**Menelik_I** · May 18, 2011, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by trollface

>He is probably abusing the money cheat

enough with the stupid accusations, I have never used a money cheat in any mod

how do I do it? Simple... the rebels have no elephants and rarely have javelin units, so as long as you keep the elephants moving, preferably charging, you can conquer rebel settlements very easily when the ai sallys. The cavalry and infantry can be trampled on again and again until they rout. Enemy javelins can be dealt with by quickly charging them down with elephants or cavalry, advisable to not use your general as he may get killed. As I said, I conquered the entire hindu area in roughly 30 turns by elephant blitzkrieging. Javelin elephants are not that expensove... 600-700 gold maintenance is not that bad, many elite cavalry units cost as much. Generals and archer elephants cost more but I don't make alot of either

heres the save

LOL don't get mad bro

**trollface** · May 18, 2011, 09:04 AM

>LOL don't get mad bro

Am I being trolled by a 4channer?

**Menelik_I** · May 18, 2011, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by trollface

>LOL don't get mad bro

Am I being trolled by a 4channer?

No I didn't intended to insult you with the money cheat comment, nor I am trolling you.

Lets just take it easy

**Phosphoricus** · May 18, 2011, 12:47 PM

Trollface is right. I have been able to use the same method to take many settlements. In many cases, the elephants were all I needed; I just waited for them to sally and then let the trampling begin.

If any of you are interested in a possible solution to the problem, I invite you to try a version of the EDU that I developed to address the issue. Please note that this is based upon the 2.02/2.3 version of the EDU. It is attached here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...69#post7764369

Basically, under the changes, elephant sturdiness relies upon hitpoints instead of armor and defense values. As such, the elephants no longer have special sensitivity to javelins but tend to 'wear out' as they fight as they sustain damage from being hit more often than before. They have more hitpoints, and so survive the blows at first, but eventually the elephants will go down in sustained combat unless they are withdrawn.

A version without upkeep changes also exists in an earlier post from that thread. My original goals and the theory behind the changes is also explained in greater detail in that thread.

If you try it, please let me know what you think of the changes.

**Dago Red** · May 19, 2011, 11:56 AM

That sounds promising, and would address the - Ineffectiveness of spears.

**trollface** · May 21, 2011, 01:14 PM

certain types of elephant can be strangely vulnerable to melee attack. Qaqqinayya bowmen can cause heavy damage in a prolonged melee, sometimes an elite cavalry unit can kill a few as well.